Posted on Aug 22, 2014
Feelings on displaying the Confederate flag on your POV or person while on a military installation?
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Recently, I had a long and heated discussion with a fellow veteran about this issue. I don't know for sure whether a branch-specific reg or a DoD-wide reg exists that prohibits/allows personnel on a military installation to display the Confederate flag on their personal vehicle or on their person (e.g. a belt buckle). Maybe this is a base-specific policy and left to the judgment of the installation commander. Display of the Confederate flag is a divisive issue and people often feel really strongly one way or the other. But today, it is still a relevant topic and touches on other military leadership/discipline areas, including the actions of one member deeply offending another member -- regardless of whether said action is legal/authorized. That can create huge problems in a military unit, and this happened in a unit I personally served in. So, below are my questions for the RallyPoint community about this issue.
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 325
It only becomes a problem if you or the Nay-sayer is racist. It's all in the eyes of the beholder. People will always bitch and cry over someone else's style, taste, or preference. I look at it this way, if what you are doing doesn't cause harm and somebody doesn't like it... F#@k em'. That's why God made you who you are.
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Solely in answer the original posters question.
Looking at symbolism alone as what this flag represented in our nations history, an part of our nation attempting to secede from the union. When that failed these states attempted a revolution to become a new nation which was not part of the union. They failed in this venture.
When you take the oath of enlistment you swear to support and defend the constitution of the united states against all enemies foreign and domestic and to bear true faith and allegiance to the same.
Looking at it solely from that perspective if your bearing true faith and allegiance to the united states of america, you shouldn't be displaying the flag of the area which attempted to revolt against it.
I am from California, you don't see me displaying Mexico's flag everywhere nor would I want to because i not a Mexican. I am an American and my faith and Loyalty lies with the United States of America. I love the area I grew up in. I love how diverse and cultured it is. I love its history with the Hispanic missions the pacific railroad, the gold rush, and the launching of the internet and the information age. I would never however fly or display the Mexican or Californian flag on post because my loyalty lies to the constitution of the united states.
Looking at symbolism alone as what this flag represented in our nations history, an part of our nation attempting to secede from the union. When that failed these states attempted a revolution to become a new nation which was not part of the union. They failed in this venture.
When you take the oath of enlistment you swear to support and defend the constitution of the united states against all enemies foreign and domestic and to bear true faith and allegiance to the same.
Looking at it solely from that perspective if your bearing true faith and allegiance to the united states of america, you shouldn't be displaying the flag of the area which attempted to revolt against it.
I am from California, you don't see me displaying Mexico's flag everywhere nor would I want to because i not a Mexican. I am an American and my faith and Loyalty lies with the United States of America. I love the area I grew up in. I love how diverse and cultured it is. I love its history with the Hispanic missions the pacific railroad, the gold rush, and the launching of the internet and the information age. I would never however fly or display the Mexican or Californian flag on post because my loyalty lies to the constitution of the united states.
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Let's share another point of view. Allow me to establish a credential as recipient of the NAACP Roy Wilkens award selection representing US Army Europe several years ago (for taking great risk in supporti of women and minorities.) That was part of a result of a substantiated DOD case where I had to force certain issues to resolution or go down with the ship. And no, I am not a zealot nor holier-than-thou crusader. I just like to be on the right side of right; made up my mind long ago to do my duty and to do it well; and if the day came that the Green Machine wants to slam dunk you for doing it, you must take a stand. For you must stand for something or you will for anything. Part of that time I also served as acting Garrison CSM at an installation where there was some rather serious leadership and puported racial issues. No doubt there were all kinds of issues simmering. From my perspective, the main issue was the failure to maintain order and discipline among a specific skill set that shall remain nameless. Anyone who did their duty was undermined and looked like the Ugly Duckling. Secondary to that was the command's propensity to act upon malicious gossip rather than fact, which was a tendency exploited by one or two individuals in the senior leadership as a divisive tactic to play other senior leaders against one another. Rebel flags came into the picture when a group of disgruntled officers--yes commissioned officers--in the medical unit made allegations of racial discrimination. They did so on the front page of a local newspaper, in uniform (contrary to army regs), and we had evidence that in two or more of their allegations, they personally arranged for the mischief--(1) small rebel flags placed on vehicles that were photographed and given media as "Evidence" of a negative racial climate and (2) personal procurement of the few copies of JET/BET magazine sold on base as "evidence" that the commander had somehow "stopped distro" which he of course did not. The brought in the rush to judgement as set the command up to look foolish, because dealing with the real issues involving the officers--which never came to public light--took a back seat to the media circus. During that time another former officer, a minority, who allegedly once had a poor OER hunted down the (white) officer who wrote it and shot him with a shot gun on the back porch of the HQ. Meanwhile I did what one is supposed to do with little or no support. That was not a fun time. However, the system does work, only very very slowly. So if there is some rule banning confederate flags, it was not in effect at that time. Long story, but one that could make a movie.
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1/2) Personally I don't care & seeing as I went to High School with a guy who not only had that on the back of his truck, on a giant belt buckle he wore proudly everyday & put it on his class ring, oh I forgot to mention yes he was black. That's right because he was born & raised in the south and had Southern Pride he loved the "Southern Flag." All I think when I see it is "Where are you from?"
(3) To answer this one here some info The Chaplain when I first got to McConnell was laid back & since I have an "Open-Christian" view on religion (I pull from many religions due to similarities) So i got a bumper sticker "333 Half Evil" That chaplain got it, no one was created perfect & all that. This is the Chaplain that was invited to my wedding as a guest.
After he left the new Chaplain saw me at the bank on base & his IMMEDIATE response; no hi, hey , how are you... nope straight to "What the hell is this, Are you some sort of Devil Worshiper; I don't ever want to see this again, you aught to be ashamed of yourself!" After resisting the urge to return the verbal lashing, I got into my truck & drove off never really bothered with chaplains since. if even 1 man with so low humility, who was so overbearing & disrespectful was to call himself a Chaplain then I wasn't going to bother going to that "Chapel" on Base again.
The problem is if you are going to be in the military you ARE going to have many people from many backgrounds if someone can't loose the ready, fire, aim attitude then they will never fully integrate anywhere they go & will be the one to suffer because when they've burned all the bridges in the first week somewhere, things will only keep going down hill from there & they'll will be the problem, no one else should have to take blame for someone else's ignorance.
(3) To answer this one here some info The Chaplain when I first got to McConnell was laid back & since I have an "Open-Christian" view on religion (I pull from many religions due to similarities) So i got a bumper sticker "333 Half Evil" That chaplain got it, no one was created perfect & all that. This is the Chaplain that was invited to my wedding as a guest.
After he left the new Chaplain saw me at the bank on base & his IMMEDIATE response; no hi, hey , how are you... nope straight to "What the hell is this, Are you some sort of Devil Worshiper; I don't ever want to see this again, you aught to be ashamed of yourself!" After resisting the urge to return the verbal lashing, I got into my truck & drove off never really bothered with chaplains since. if even 1 man with so low humility, who was so overbearing & disrespectful was to call himself a Chaplain then I wasn't going to bother going to that "Chapel" on Base again.
The problem is if you are going to be in the military you ARE going to have many people from many backgrounds if someone can't loose the ready, fire, aim attitude then they will never fully integrate anywhere they go & will be the one to suffer because when they've burned all the bridges in the first week somewhere, things will only keep going down hill from there & they'll will be the problem, no one else should have to take blame for someone else's ignorance.
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We live in a country where there was slavery under the Union Jack for about 200 years, and each flag that developed between 1776 and 1860. Around 384 years of these flags, and people are screaming about a "nation" that only existed for 4 years. Where is the indignation about slavery still being in existence in the Northern states during the civil war?
By my figuring the ratio runs about 96:1
By my figuring the ratio runs about 96:1
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On Lee-Jackson Day, confederate re-enactors come to VMI to display confederate flags all over the front of the school.
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CPT (Join to see)
Everyone just ignores them. They understand that our school fought for the confederacy and that stonewall jackson was a teacher here. It is a part of the history that we can't change.
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CPT (Join to see)
I didn't say that. The African American population of vmi makes up less than 1 percent. They know coming to vmi that the school has a confederate background and they choose to come here anyway. It is the the townies and civil war junkies that participate in lee Jackson day not the school itself. There is nothing that can be done about the takeover for the day and so the school ignores it and continues on as usual.
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PFC Eric Minchey
Cadet 2LT Alexandra Hastings, sounds to me like the Cadets at VMI have the right mindset on this issue. If everyone could just understand that it is a part of our history and that we can't change it. A lot of problems & issues regrading the Confederate flag would not exist.
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The "Dispelling the propaganda" series
This is a series of videos to dispell and debunk 150 years of union propaganda and false accusations surrounding the Confederacy.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBA40FAD452C861F7
This is a series of videos to dispell and debunk 150 years of union propaganda and false accusations surrounding the Confederacy.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBA40FAD452C861F7
The "Dispelling the propaganda" series
This is a series of videos that I am currently working on to dispell and debunk 150 years of union propaganda and false accusations surrounding the Confedera...
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From Texas. Wouldn't do it. My family fought for the CSA. They lost. I have no tie to that time. I was born in the United States. I'll fly a Texas flag and an American flag, because those are the only two I identify with.
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This issue is impact vs. intent. The intent of the individual may be Southern pride, but the impact can be different based on each individual person. It’s the nonverbal message that is important and this is where individuals can cross into the realm of an equal opportunity violation. It can be akin to displaying a swastika, a symbol that predates the Nazi party by 1000 yrs and has deep rooted religious and cultural meaning. However this meaning has been overshadowed by Adolph Hitler and Nazis. As an army we depend on each other and need to know that when the fecal matter hits an oscillating object your battle will be there for you. However if an individual is constantly watching their back because someone displays poor judgment this will have a negative impact on the units ability to function as a whole and affect the unit’s ability to complete the mission.
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Interestingly enough California has spoken for everyone in the Golden State and is in the process of banning the display and sales of the Southern Cross and its likeness
Looks like the South will not be rising anytime soon in Cali. but then again there is the ACLU.
http://www.latimes.com/local/political/la-me-pc-confederate-flag-bill-20140820-story.html
Looks like the South will not be rising anytime soon in Cali. but then again there is the ACLU.
http://www.latimes.com/local/political/la-me-pc-confederate-flag-bill-20140820-story.html
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MSG Wade Huffman
I read the article, and found this section interesting:
"The measure by Assemblyman Isadore Hall III (D-Compton) would prohibit the STATE from displaying or selling merchandise emblazoned with the Confederate flag."
"Hall said the bill would apply to the state, not individuals, and therefore would not harm free speech."
So, and individual is still free to display the modified battle flag of Northern Virginia as he/she sees fit, the state, however, can not.
So, it appears that the only thing that changes in the state of California is that the gift shop in the capitol can no longer sell replicas of confederate money. Of all the problems in California, they took this on?
"The measure by Assemblyman Isadore Hall III (D-Compton) would prohibit the STATE from displaying or selling merchandise emblazoned with the Confederate flag."
"Hall said the bill would apply to the state, not individuals, and therefore would not harm free speech."
So, and individual is still free to display the modified battle flag of Northern Virginia as he/she sees fit, the state, however, can not.
So, it appears that the only thing that changes in the state of California is that the gift shop in the capitol can no longer sell replicas of confederate money. Of all the problems in California, they took this on?
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