Posted on Feb 6, 2017
For army 15-Q, are there any TAIS operators here? I have a bit of a logistical question.
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So the TAIS is two HMMWVs, a generator, and a cargo trailer. Problem is one HMMWV has a shelter on it and cannot tow anything while the other one tows the genny and the cargo trailer goes unused. So the question is, am I off base here saying the Shelter truck can't tow anything? It's how I was trained. Im Considering ordering a troop carrier kit for the support truck so we can move organically.
15Q: Air Traffic Control Operator
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 4
Its a GVW question, in other words weight.
The TAIS is in a S-788 shelter I believe, that shelter weights about 650 lb empty, with the TAIS and supporting equipment, plus basic HMMWV and its BII is added on, look at the rolling weight (go to your deployment site, there will be a record of a TAIS vehicle weight on one of the deployments previously in the system)
The TM will specify if that outfitted HMMWV has capacity to tow a trailer... and any basic HMMWV of the same variant TM will tell you its load and load + towing capacity.
Forget what you were told, its in black and white.. Go see your maint Warrant, go with the TM in hand havening done your best to understand what it says, don't go and make him(her) do the leg work) If you go prepared and ask the Chief to confirm or deny what you researched, dollars to donuts they will with a smile.
maint chiefs are true professionals, expert's in their field, but they are not baby sitters..
The TAIS is in a S-788 shelter I believe, that shelter weights about 650 lb empty, with the TAIS and supporting equipment, plus basic HMMWV and its BII is added on, look at the rolling weight (go to your deployment site, there will be a record of a TAIS vehicle weight on one of the deployments previously in the system)
The TM will specify if that outfitted HMMWV has capacity to tow a trailer... and any basic HMMWV of the same variant TM will tell you its load and load + towing capacity.
Forget what you were told, its in black and white.. Go see your maint Warrant, go with the TM in hand havening done your best to understand what it says, don't go and make him(her) do the leg work) If you go prepared and ask the Chief to confirm or deny what you researched, dollars to donuts they will with a smile.
maint chiefs are true professionals, expert's in their field, but they are not baby sitters..
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SGM Erik Marquez
SGT (Join to see) - Its common for SM to "hear" something from a person that "should know" and then that SM regurgitates the bad info for years to come, only to have a privet that was bored on CQ, and actually read the TM tell the platoon sergeant he is wrong.....lol
And remember, words over Pictures,, don't trust the art work.
Read the words.
It may be that the vehicle with a basic TAIS unit in that shelter other wise devoid of gear is within weight limits and can two a small 10k Gen set or empty trailer.
But once you load out the TAIS truck for actual use..... its over weight to tow.
So as a prime mover to get the shelter, and a towed item on the aircraft it might work... But the associated gear might need to be in a conex insert palletized, or loaded on a cargo truck.
and reality comes in to play....I've used HMMWV as a prime mover to get a water trailer, Kitchen trailer and many other over sized items on an Aircraft.. but they were empty and that HMMVW was only used to get it loaded. Once at the debarkation site, a proper prime mover was used to tow it to the site location...
loading an AC is a puzzle game.... many times you mix and match to get things to fit...and the entire unit load out to debarkation,, then rearrange as needed to transport to final destination. I'm terrible at figuring out a rubrics cube....but was damn good as an Air Load planner......lol
And remember, words over Pictures,, don't trust the art work.
Read the words.
It may be that the vehicle with a basic TAIS unit in that shelter other wise devoid of gear is within weight limits and can two a small 10k Gen set or empty trailer.
But once you load out the TAIS truck for actual use..... its over weight to tow.
So as a prime mover to get the shelter, and a towed item on the aircraft it might work... But the associated gear might need to be in a conex insert palletized, or loaded on a cargo truck.
and reality comes in to play....I've used HMMWV as a prime mover to get a water trailer, Kitchen trailer and many other over sized items on an Aircraft.. but they were empty and that HMMVW was only used to get it loaded. Once at the debarkation site, a proper prime mover was used to tow it to the site location...
loading an AC is a puzzle game.... many times you mix and match to get things to fit...and the entire unit load out to debarkation,, then rearrange as needed to transport to final destination. I'm terrible at figuring out a rubrics cube....but was damn good as an Air Load planner......lol
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SGT (Join to see)
SGM Erik Marquez - yea, after I read your post, I pulled up the tm and did a quick search. 30 seconds upended ten years of misunderstanding. I still say I should get that troop carrier setup for the support truck, because as a system we only have four total seats for eight soldiers. Not conveniant.
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SSgt (Join to see)
SGM Erik Marquez - I've been that private a time or two. I learned to be diplomatic about. "Hey sarn't the book says your wrong" doesn't fly very high with most NCOs. I only had one NCO who couldn't be changed, when wrong, as long as I was diplomatic about it.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SSgt (Join to see) - was that guy my whole career...LOL>
Anything from, "Sure we can, TM says we can fire that ammo...." to "Sir Yes we can do that, the policy says we cant THAT, not that we cant THIS"
I had a target on any "No We cant do that" I was challenged to find a way to do "That" what ever that was if I was on board and thought it was a good idea.
I was told once I had to cancel my off site airborne insertion and live fire as we did not have a PL yet....Two weeks later after laying out the mission plan, showing the Bn CDR there was no rules, policy or regs forbidding it, my Specialty platoon (Heavy weapons Anti Tank) conducted the 1st and only known (at the time, in that unit) Off site, fly away, combined heavy drop and airborne insertion, with a live fire on the DZ, airborne operation where the ONLY officer involved planning to execution was the airplane pilots. I was told it could not be done, it was against regulations, had to have an officer........ BS.. show me....
Anything from, "Sure we can, TM says we can fire that ammo...." to "Sir Yes we can do that, the policy says we cant THAT, not that we cant THIS"
I had a target on any "No We cant do that" I was challenged to find a way to do "That" what ever that was if I was on board and thought it was a good idea.
I was told once I had to cancel my off site airborne insertion and live fire as we did not have a PL yet....Two weeks later after laying out the mission plan, showing the Bn CDR there was no rules, policy or regs forbidding it, my Specialty platoon (Heavy weapons Anti Tank) conducted the 1st and only known (at the time, in that unit) Off site, fly away, combined heavy drop and airborne insertion, with a live fire on the DZ, airborne operation where the ONLY officer involved planning to execution was the airplane pilots. I was told it could not be done, it was against regulations, had to have an officer........ BS.. show me....
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Send your question to me in global and I will see it gets to the TAIS folks. My out of office is on but I will still see your questions
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SGT (Join to see)
SSgt Dwight Deatherage, I appreciate the assistance, but I think this issue has been settled. I've been operating under a misconception this whole time. The shelter truck can in fact tow equipment.
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SSgt Dwight Deatherage
SGT (Join to see) - Great. All of the Tatical ATC ILS Managers, engineers, and tech writers sit around me at work, and the talk to their PM-ATC counterparts everyday, so don't hesitate to ask any question. If your have a question, there are others who probably need the same answer. I work Fixed Base as a one man office and am the senior SME in avionics, so I am often not in the office, but I will always see your e-mail on my Blackberry that is always with me. Good Luck
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I wouldn't tow anything with the shelter. Just to be safe, i would talk to my ATC Chief to get more guidance.
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SSG (Join to see)
I'm picking up what you're putting down. SGM is correct about the FM. Have you tried to just add another vehicle to your mission in the mean time for troop carrying?SGT (Join to see) -
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SGT (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - that's what we do now, borrow another vehicle from our unit motor pool. But that's a short term solution every time. Have to turn it back, other sections need it, can't reliably keep it, etc.
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SSG (Join to see)
Yeah that makes sense. At some point you have to get a permanent solution. I hope everything works out for you and your tac team.SGT (Join to see) -
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SGT (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - thanks. Still going for that troop carrier attachment. Though I'm glad to know I've been trained wrong for the last ten years and I CAN move all equipment organically
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