Posted on Apr 7, 2020
For former MP's- after service, has anyone gone into civilian law enforcement? If so, how was that transition?
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Military Police, Law Enforcement
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 14
I entered law enforcement in '75 and admittedly, that was a long time ago and things have certainly changed. With that said, I found it to be an easy transition using the police academy to adjust from the military to civilian mindset but found my background as an MP to be of little influence in the decision to hire me and never really leveraged that experience until I got on the street. Many things will come naturally as there are many commonalities between the two agencies, though an MP is apt to find the civilian side of the ledger to be far more complicated having many more 'moving parts' if you will, requiring the LEO to possess a keener edge and a vast number of professional skills than one learns as an MP. One thing I can say is that having worked closely with law enforcement for 20 years after I left my department, I have kept current with many of the changes and know that job is by far more difficult than it was 45 years ago but that is in no way intended to be a discouragement to anyone interested in making the change. Just understand that it is two different worlds with the same mission - maintaining safety and keeping the peace.
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SSG Derrick Iozzio
I worked in law enforcement for 17 years. Many of the people I worked with retired. I enjoyed the job, but not the politics that seem to haunt it. I started this discussion because there is so much talk about using military skills and experience when an SM enters the civilian world, but sometimes that is discounted by the civilian employers. I applaud those that do support the military. Thank you for your insight.
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LTC Wayne Brandon
SSG Derrick Iozzio - You are quite welcome, and you are certainly correct about the politics; I hated them as well. My experience was further troubled by the "Affirmative Action" initiative. I found myself being passed over for promotion to Sergeant due to the need to fill more staff positions with minorities, irrespective of their performance records (Arrests, convictions, service to the community, willingness to work OT and train others, etc.) There was also the resentment of other officers because of my reserve obligation where I had one weekend a month off when it conflicted with my shift as that caused another deputy to take my shift.
It doesn't effect a large department but I worked for a medium sized department of about 25 including the staff so it made a difference. This is something else to consider when coming off of AD and make sure it isn't going to be a problem for the department for it is sure to become a problem for the reservist or National Guardsman.
It doesn't effect a large department but I worked for a medium sized department of about 25 including the staff so it made a difference. This is something else to consider when coming off of AD and make sure it isn't going to be a problem for the department for it is sure to become a problem for the reservist or National Guardsman.
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SSG Derrick Iozzio
LTC Wayne Brandon- I worked in a small dept (90 sworn officers) and found it to be more like a security job. There were politics involved. I then worked for a large dept (4000 sworn officers). The affirmative action for promotions caused issues as well. The promotion was based on books and not on performance. Basically if you could memorize the books, you scored high on the test and got promoted. The sgt's and above then "forgot" they were police officers. Another issue was that senior officers frowned upon the rookies for doing the job they swore an oath to do. I have witnessed some of those officers sit and do nothing when an "Assist the officer" call went out. In that dept. an assist call was like the highest priority (ie- I am getting my butt kicked- help). Quite a few officers reported for work, only to find a place to "sleep" during their shift. The dept. allowed officers to work side jobs and those officers spent their time off working such jobs. It was a crazy thing.
Thank you for your reply.
Thank you for your reply.
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LTC Wayne Brandon
SSG Derrick Iozzio - Your time in the large department sounds like the City of Detroit. The waste, fraud and abuse is so common it is scarcely noticeable with many officers afraid to do anything for fear of reprisal even when they are right. Stay frosty, my friend.
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I was a Cop when drafted, after ETS went back into Police work for two decades.
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There are commonalities but policing in the real world is para-military and organizationally is a far different beast. Chain of command is a concept but there is considerable lateral authority, and outright politicking and good-old-boy BS depending on the agency, on the civilian side. Also, no one is stuck with you on the civilian side. In most places Sheriff's Deputies work at the pleasure of the Sheriff and you can be in the unemployment line at the next election or if the Sheriff or your chain of command take a disliking to you. You can usually be let go with no recourse during your first year at most places and generally with little effort on the part of the agency at any time past that, outside of some union states.
Don't expect the bond you share with your unit members to be anything similar except in a few rare cases. Everyone has their own lives and the enforced togetherness in the military is not a thing. Also, the sense of mission is not there. Law Enforcement is a relentless grind sometimes and often in the darkest hours it seems pointless.
Be ready to deal with things that make you question if humanity is worth saving of if cockroaches should be allowed make a go of it. Sex crimes involving kids are the worst. They make you start questioning the validity of the rule of law and if crucifixion should be on the table for capital punishment all while you don't violate the scum bag's rights or beat him within an inch of his life...
Also, the nature of the policing is far different. There is generally a commonality between service members, even in different branches. When policing in the community you will have fewer commonalities outside of basic human ones. People will assume a great many things about you and some of your fellow Americans will actively hate you for the uniform you wear and the oath you take. In some cases with zero justification. In others with ample justification.
While service members are all trained in arraigning the brevity of human life to one degree or another they are generally disciplined. There are equally deadly people in the civilian world and you are completely reactive in nature as opposed to being able to define/dictate the parameters of an encounter. Military members have something to lose, even if often it's pride of place, rank etc.. In the civilian side you often encounter people with little to lose in their minds. Also, a great many people you deal with are mentally ill or have mental/behavioral issues. Not all, but much of that is screened out in the military. I've gone 20 plus years in local and now federal uniformed service without having to shoot anyone and I am thankful that I never have. I'm mostly admin now so odds are getting lower but... the danger is not in a clean shoot. No one is losing sweat over that. The worry is getting mixed up in a dirty or questionable/mistaken shoot. The idea of losing everything I own and everything I've worked for for my family... all I can say is get liability insurance.
You will probably lose money when you ETS and go to civilian law enforcement in many cases, depending on where you live and cost of living. There is no BAQ, BAH etc and what you make is what you make. Be ready to work OT and off duty gigs if you want shiny stuff. Also there is little support services and networks like in the military.
There is far more paperwork involved and be ready to justify every single action you take and testify about it in court. Being on YouTube is a thing. Primary goals in my career, aside from doing a good job, have been to not make case law and avoid being on YouTube.
There is very little "shooting riding and roping" in proportion to all the "other" stuff. I've done everything from replacing light bulbs and fixing door knobs on little old crazy cat lady front porches to working homicide scenes. Far far more of the former than the latter. You will also deal with people at the worst possible moment of their lives on a daily basis. Things have gone out of control and they call you to fix the problem. Often the root problem is of their own stupidity and addictions and the chain of events has been brewing for years, if not decades. It's your job to fix it in their eyes even if all you can do is put a band-aid on the arterial bleed.
There is a far greater body of law to know and you constantly have to think in terms of "What is happening, what can I deduce, and do I have a legal right to be here/do this?" The Fourth Amendment is a real thing on the outside and SOP and policy only governs YOU, not the public.
Shit can every thing you ever thought you knew about policing from the military. Bar your lips from telling stories from when you were paroling base housing etc. You're like the no combat patch guy telling the three Iraq tour guy about that time you went to Kosovo. Save it for when you are out of FTO.
It's a glass bottom boat tour of a sewer and the greatest show on the face of the earth. Good luck and god bless. Be safe out there.
Don't expect the bond you share with your unit members to be anything similar except in a few rare cases. Everyone has their own lives and the enforced togetherness in the military is not a thing. Also, the sense of mission is not there. Law Enforcement is a relentless grind sometimes and often in the darkest hours it seems pointless.
Be ready to deal with things that make you question if humanity is worth saving of if cockroaches should be allowed make a go of it. Sex crimes involving kids are the worst. They make you start questioning the validity of the rule of law and if crucifixion should be on the table for capital punishment all while you don't violate the scum bag's rights or beat him within an inch of his life...
Also, the nature of the policing is far different. There is generally a commonality between service members, even in different branches. When policing in the community you will have fewer commonalities outside of basic human ones. People will assume a great many things about you and some of your fellow Americans will actively hate you for the uniform you wear and the oath you take. In some cases with zero justification. In others with ample justification.
While service members are all trained in arraigning the brevity of human life to one degree or another they are generally disciplined. There are equally deadly people in the civilian world and you are completely reactive in nature as opposed to being able to define/dictate the parameters of an encounter. Military members have something to lose, even if often it's pride of place, rank etc.. In the civilian side you often encounter people with little to lose in their minds. Also, a great many people you deal with are mentally ill or have mental/behavioral issues. Not all, but much of that is screened out in the military. I've gone 20 plus years in local and now federal uniformed service without having to shoot anyone and I am thankful that I never have. I'm mostly admin now so odds are getting lower but... the danger is not in a clean shoot. No one is losing sweat over that. The worry is getting mixed up in a dirty or questionable/mistaken shoot. The idea of losing everything I own and everything I've worked for for my family... all I can say is get liability insurance.
You will probably lose money when you ETS and go to civilian law enforcement in many cases, depending on where you live and cost of living. There is no BAQ, BAH etc and what you make is what you make. Be ready to work OT and off duty gigs if you want shiny stuff. Also there is little support services and networks like in the military.
There is far more paperwork involved and be ready to justify every single action you take and testify about it in court. Being on YouTube is a thing. Primary goals in my career, aside from doing a good job, have been to not make case law and avoid being on YouTube.
There is very little "shooting riding and roping" in proportion to all the "other" stuff. I've done everything from replacing light bulbs and fixing door knobs on little old crazy cat lady front porches to working homicide scenes. Far far more of the former than the latter. You will also deal with people at the worst possible moment of their lives on a daily basis. Things have gone out of control and they call you to fix the problem. Often the root problem is of their own stupidity and addictions and the chain of events has been brewing for years, if not decades. It's your job to fix it in their eyes even if all you can do is put a band-aid on the arterial bleed.
There is a far greater body of law to know and you constantly have to think in terms of "What is happening, what can I deduce, and do I have a legal right to be here/do this?" The Fourth Amendment is a real thing on the outside and SOP and policy only governs YOU, not the public.
Shit can every thing you ever thought you knew about policing from the military. Bar your lips from telling stories from when you were paroling base housing etc. You're like the no combat patch guy telling the three Iraq tour guy about that time you went to Kosovo. Save it for when you are out of FTO.
It's a glass bottom boat tour of a sewer and the greatest show on the face of the earth. Good luck and god bless. Be safe out there.
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