For the counseling dates on an Army NCOER, does this counseling need to be documented?

Capt (Join to see) I don't think there is a better way of putting it!

SSG Warren Swan Well put. Thank you

SFC (Anonymous) - Thanks SFC!

SFC (Anonymous) - I hope you're not going to retire anytime soon. You broke the cardinal rule of making sense. We're not supposed to make sense, just beat our chests and berate each other at will. Feelings and MOS be damned. Ohh and anyone not 11 series is a POG. Gotta get the POGs opinions out being we don't see combat or have a viable purpose in the Army (all of this in my years on this site), so how could we have opinions if we're not fully battle tested.
In all seriousness, I admit I was one hell of a fuck up, but I see what I did wrong, and as a retiree, I get the pleasure and chance to make it right for someone behind be, so they can influence those behind them. Its paying it forward and a blessing all NCO's should take. The jobs change, the fucking up doesn't. We can influence the second so the first helps itself.

SFC (Anonymous) - I'd have to get back to you on that one. I'm not very familiar with the new NCOER changes. The "Silver Bullet". We're giving away Coors now? Why would anyone give away a bullet if you're up for promotion or not? If you "gave it away now", there's not guarantee you'll have the same rating officials on the next go round. Seems to me SGM has a favorite who needs some help, and by BS'ing y'all hoping one of you will give it. "I hear the choppers hovering, they're hovering overhead, they've come to get their wounded, they've come to get their dead".....those same choppers are flown by the Blue Falcons looking to pick up those who gave that bullet away.

Don't give an inch until you are ready to go. I fully understand how you feel, and to be honest I wish I was in your boots still, but the body and mind as one said no, and the Army's IDES agreed. I make more money medically retired than had I done the full 20, but I only had 18mos left till 20. 20 was my goal, and this money doesn't take away the sting of being so close. Ain't nothing I couldn't handle with a full mind and body for 18mos. I was a 95B (now 31B) and a 74B now 25B, I saw IT on your profile (I was 2bn 1st IO when I punched out). Do your time, retire, and laugh your ass off with your newfound money as a contractor or whatever. Laugh all the way until VA calls and you have your C&P appointments. You'll stop laughing then and want to skulldrag all of em.

SGM Bill Frazer - thank you for your response. I asked this question for a soldier having a difficult time with their rating chain. There is a process for counseling NCOs for their NCOERs in the DA Pam, I was looking for facts, regulations, etc.

If you read that DA Pam it talks about initialing the support form, there is no specific language that deals with written documentation versus oral counseling. Initialing a support form does not document what was discussed during the counseling session nor does it offer an NCO any input to refute what was said vs. what is on a counseling statement.

MSG (Join to see) Oh no not me.....

MSG (Join to see) - I'm almost half tempted to guess who the issues are with....since I could prolly guess in about 5 attempts.

I understand all too well that things are always changing. That being said, it is your job as a senior leader to stay on top of those changes. As far as the NCOER system goes, it hasn't changed since I put on my chevrons in 2011 and it had been that way for many years prior; that is a long time to have not been properly informed. As for where you may find your answers regarding this exact issue, a two-minute session on the internet gave me the exact information. Please reference DA PAM 623-3, pg 72, Chapter 3, Section I, DA Form 2166-9-1A (NCO Evaluation Report Support Form). Under section 3-1, b. Process, it states that DA Form 2166-9-1A use is mandatory. MSG, I don't aim to be an ass, but I know that I had many of senior NCOs that negatively impacted my peers and me because of a simple failure to follow this kind of easy doctrine. As NCOs, it is paramount that we hold one another to the highest of standards.

You are 100% right. I have been victim to poor supervision and so has my daughter who served on active duty. Whenever I am a Rater or Senior rater, I do the right thing, I take time out of my schedule to sit down and counsel my soldiers (to include documentation).

I am actually researching this for a fellow NCO who is in need of help and guidance outside of my unit who came to me for guidance based on my reputation. I came to Rally Point to be better informed about something in order to help someone out. I have yet to meet anyone in the military regardless of rank who knew the answer to every question, or had every regulation memorized.

Part of being a good leader (in my opinion) is to know where to go for guidance if you do not have the answer. Like I said, I came here to see what others had to say because quite frankly I do not, nor will I ever have all of the answers. If a soldier comes to me for advice, I will seek whatever input I can in order to help a soldier out. I am not trying to be an ass either but you obviously had some things negatively impact you because of bad leadership. I am not providing bad leadership, I am getting guidance for a soldier in need.

BTW.... The NCOER system recently changed after over 3 decades.

Ok, I separated in 2014. After reading your comment about the recent change it took me less than a minute to find those changes on the internet. The fact is that asking for advice is fine, but finding the exact information is a far better way to go about getting answers. The internet is a powerful tool. With the way that people connect via the internet it is easy to immediately jump to tossing out a question in a group and hope to get a bit of info, but it is important to be able to find this information so that you have a leg to stand on instead of saying that someone told you that this was how it was done. Proper use of the internet to locate the appropriate document (AR, FM, DA PAM, etc) and then looking up that document via APD is the best way to do this. Memorization of regulation is not important; knowing what regulation that you must reference for that information is. Your NCO friend could also do well to practice this.

Lastly, the changes to the NCOER system in 2016 did not change the documentation that is required. http://www.ncoerguide.com/files/ncoer-approved-changes.pdf

This isn't a young E5 asking these questions though. That argument kind of goes out the window.