Posted on Apr 9, 2014
CW2 Jonathan Kantor
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Foxnews
<div>***Update***</div><div><br></div><div>I have realized that I have made a fatal flaw in this discussion. &nbsp;I should have only brought up the Opinion News Shows. &nbsp;Fox thrives on them--Fox &amp; Friends, The Five, Hannity, McKelly, O'Reilly, etc. &nbsp;If you have seen opinion shows on Fox and other networks, what do you find appealing about them? &nbsp;Why do you watch them? &nbsp;They aren't strictly news programs--if that even exists anymore on cable--so what's the draw? &nbsp;Can you make a comparison between one of the Fox shows and any on the other networks? &nbsp;Admittedly, I cannot. &nbsp;I don't watch this stuff anymore and most of my viewing was on Fox. &nbsp;I don't read opinion pieces or anything like them for the most part. &nbsp;I don't care what other people think about the news, I just want to know what the news is. &nbsp;I do care what everyone here thinks though so let's continue the discussion! &nbsp;I am interested to see how this goes.....</div><div><br></div><div><div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div></div><div>This discussion has evolved quite nicely. &nbsp;We have gone around and around and here's what I find to be the main takeaways: No news organization can be trusted, they are all sensationalists, they have political agendas (Fox=conservative while MSNBC=liberal), they are looking to make ratings, and the easiest being that liberals hate Fox and conservatives like it. &nbsp;<br></div><div><br></div><div>So, let's take the discussion forward. &nbsp;Given the conclusions I just stated, do you think that any news organization, Fox or otherwise, doesn't tell the truth? &nbsp;Can you provide some examples of a news anchor telling a lie, or perhaps stretching the truth. &nbsp;I have already posted a few about Fox, but I would like to see what my comrades who are on the political right have to say on the subject. &nbsp;Also, do you trust a particular newscaster or news channel? &nbsp;Do you watch local news instead of cable?</div><div><br></div><div>This thread has been pretty active and I want to keep it going so please, discuss!!!</div><div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div>I imagine I may get some flack for this discussion, but I would like to have it anyways.&nbsp; First off, I do not like Fox News.&nbsp; I have a lot of reasons for this and can go into specifics, but the main reasons are: They lie, they distort facts, they make stuff up, and they are a platform for Conservatives specifically and in no way support other ideologies.&nbsp; They say they are fair and balanced, but to me, that sounds like the North Koreans calling their country the People's Republic of North Korea.&nbsp; Clearly, I am a liberal.<br></div><div><br>Why I think this is important: Many of our young Troops are impressionable and the station of choice for every office I have worked in has been Fox News.&nbsp; I have seen blind support from our Troops on important issues that require, in my opinion, individual scrutiny.&nbsp; Most people who watch the channel tend to repeat what is said without opinion.&nbsp; I find this to be dangerous.<br><br>Regarding other news organizations, comparing one with another doesn't take the discussion very far.&nbsp; I am specifically interested in discussing Fox.&nbsp; <br><br>I don't watch the news at all.&nbsp; I have removed myself from that sort of influence.&nbsp; I get all of my news from two sources: objective media outlets online and from the two news organizations that really matter: The Daily Show With John Stewart and The Colbert Report.&nbsp; It is from those shows that I see anything of Fox News.&nbsp; <br><br>Liberals: Do you agree with me?&nbsp; Why or why not?<br>Conservatives: Same question<br>Independents: Same question<br><br>I am very interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this type of media manipulation.<br></div>
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CSM Chris McKeown
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At this time FOX News will win the battle, they have more than twice the viewers that MSNBC has, even CNN is beating MSNBC these days in ratings. 
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Sgt Mark Ramos
Sgt Mark Ramos
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CW2 Jonathan K, in response to 1SG McKeown's Fox viewership assertion you translate that to "money behind them". That raises my curiosity. I think of it as money in front of them. They sell a product that people like. Viewers watch Fox, advertisers pay based on audience size, therefore Fox makes money.

Your subtle switch to money behind infers that they have a large audience because they have a lot of money. Would a lot of money make people talking any more interesting? Are you saying that the high salaries allow them to hire hosts that are more entertaining, engaging, or seductive? Didn't the other networks have an earlier start than Fox and bigger wallets before years of lower ratings? I don't understand your logic. Please clarify.


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CW2 Jonathan Kantor
CW2 Jonathan Kantor
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Sorry, that's not what I meant by money behind them.  They do have an immense benefactor in Roger Ailes and other heavy hitters in the GOP.  I didn't mean that they were buying ratings, more that they had a lot of money to spend.  This was going back to the comments I made regarding competition in the marketplace and the other networks trying to keep up, which has further diluted the product.  The more money behind Fox, the better the product they can produce leaving the competition to create a poor facsimile.

Fox also brings in a LOT of cash from their advertisers.  Their opinion shows draw the largest share of the marketplace so that makes perfect sense. 

Yes, the other networks got a head start on Fox, but Fox had a great business plan.  They hired some foxy women (Pun intended) to host programming even though most of them weren't qualified.  That certainly paid off in the end.  They also threw a LOT of cash into production and drew in a lot of people because of their news ticker and graphics.  There is a lot of work that goes into those two things on the screen and there's a reason for that.  It captivates the audience and continues to reengage them.  This all costs money.  The other news channels had minimal graphics and mostly stock tickers at the time.  Fox took that and turned it into a media product, which engaged their core demographic: Baby Boomer Conservatives.  That's a huge market to exploit, and Fox does a good job of it.

There are several documentaries about the shenanigans at Fox albeit they are mostly focused on lies and intimidation.  Regardless, they also point out the production machine that drives Fox and it's pretty interesting if you are interested in studying/working in marketing.
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SSG Gerhard S.
SSG Gerhard S.
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I would respectfully disagree with a few of your points Chief Kantor. First, on the obvious... Fox did hire a lot of those women you spoke of, but how were they not qualified? Many of them WERE journalists, Others were Prosecutors. Which gave Fox the benefit of not being of a homogenous journalistic mind. Murdoch, and Ailes hired people who could not just read a prompter, but people who were critical thinkers, people who could comment on issues, and make coherent arguments. Fox DID come from behind, and Rupert Murdoch didn't just have "a lot of money to SPEND", instead, he took a GREAT financial RISK to bring into the marketplace a network that ran across the grain of the status quo. As to revenues,they get a lot of money from their advertisers for ONE reason. It's because they have the most VIEWERS, hence the most potential consumers for those products. Fox has more viewers than the other cable news networks combined, and it's not because of money backing them up, it's because of viewership, plain and simple. If FOX loses viewers, they lose capital, and sponsors, plain and simple.
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SSG Gerhard S.
SSG Gerhard S.
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That being said, if you read my initial comment to this thread, you will find that I have serious issues with the Credibility of Fox news on a number of issues.
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CPO Isaac Ferreira
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One word, "ratings"!
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PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
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Now there is a nice Challenge. I would recommend Poltifact they seem to be equal opportunity about calling out lies on either side.
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CSM Chris McKeown
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I down voted your topic CW2 Johnathan K. for singling out FOX News. Seems to me you have a agenda with this topic.

With that being said, today most US News Media is bias one way or another.  I do watch FOX, CNN and use BBC to put all the pieces together to try and figure out the REAL NEWS. Though FOX is geared to be more conservative I have to  say they report on things that effect the everyday American and the Military more so than most other US News Networks. ABC has been trying to get back to it's roots on delivering REAL NEWS but they still have a ways to go.

So to answer the question, NO, FOX News is not dangerous! What is dangerous is Americans are not getting REAL NEWS.

As for your global warming/climate change statements, I suggest you look into the past. We are heading for a ICE AGE, the heat comes first to help distribute moisture across the globe then comes the cold. The world has been here along time and has run this cycle several times.
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CW2 Jonathan Kantor
CW2 Jonathan Kantor
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Very good points!  I definitely agree with you that Americans aren't getting the real news.  That's the true danger and I was swaying that way, but you're right, I did single out Fox.  Not for a personal agenda or anything.  Just to engage conservatives in this discussion.

Ice Age-I completely agree and have been saying it for years.  The problem that a lot of conservatives don't want to face is the fact that we have been speeding up the process for nearly 200 years.  I don't know if we can stop it, but we should try.  Historically, Ice Ages don't occur so soon after each other.  We shouldn't have another Ice Age for millions of years.  Perhaps we are heading into another mini-Ice Age again.

Also, thank you for explaining the down vote :)
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SSG Robert Burns
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You should have made this a survey question.
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CW2 Jonathan Kantor
CW2 Jonathan Kantor
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I don't like surveys.  I like to engage and have discussions and debates.
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SSG Robert Burns
SSG Robert Burns
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You can do both. Plus it gives you a quick glance of how everyone feels about your question without having to tryand keep talley yourself.
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CW2 Jonathan Kantor
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*I am not, in any way, advocating shutting down Fox News.
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SSG Ed Mikus
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All news sources are just as bad as each other, they all twist the truth for their own agenda. what you are willing to believe depends on what you expose yourself to
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CW2 Jonathan Kantor
CW2 Jonathan Kantor
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Lois lane 0003
True.  The farther this discussion goes, the more I wish for a return of the days when news reporting was unbiased and the people had integrity.  I miss the Lois Lane style of reporting.  Objective and unbiased.
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SSgt James Stanley
SSgt James Stanley
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You Need to pick someone else, Lois Lane is a fictional character!
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SFC Gerald Kirk
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CPT K, I believe that all networks slant the political views to there audience I don't think it matters which political party they represent. And for MSNBC to be less slanted then FOX is absurd. But you are a liberal.


OK Jerry is going to get on his soapbox now!


I don't really look at life the same way as most I guess, or go about it the same way you do, apparently!


I think really everyone should be morally guided by there inner self. but we have a problem there because everyone is biased in someone towards one thing or another so we need to start with a common ground somewhere, Ours is this platform the Military site Rally Point!


You can take beliefs and customs from other people to help you guide yourself through the difficulty's in your life or when you really don't have a clue which way to go. But most people are baised because or their up bringing. What was passed down to them from there parents and grandparents. This is where people decide in life who is good and bad and why they are believed to be that way! Meaning a religious person instance or (Christians) would say they dislike gays because in the bible it says they are suppose to hate them, but we are suppose to love everyone for who they are and where they come from (right)! 


Also a sore subject: Abortion is bad because you are killing a baby (right), instead of looking why there doing it, its really none of anyone else's business, except nosey self righteous people who think they are better then everyone else. So lets destroy any hope of a young couple having a good life for themselves because they have to bring a unwanted or unplanned baby into their life. Life is hard enough without all the pressures throw upon you at a very early age! What's right for one person is not right for others. They should seek the help they need and get educated on their decisions and in the end they have to live with it what they've done through the rest of eternity not you. The world is over populated anyway, and people are starving to death because of this belief which is more humane for a babe to find its death before its first breath or to die from disease or starvation. It's a matter of perspective of course and who's eyes you are looking through. I'm not a women and I sure don't think I should telling any women who is destitute or not she should keep a baby she can not afford not to say able to feed. But we would rather put another baby out there too, so someone else can support it and feed it. What happened to the community's that raised are kids, now its gangs and drugs raising them.  


Liberals make me sick and so do conservatives.


Where are the real compassionate people who really care about what is going on in our country and want to do something to make it better.  I'm neither a Conservative or Liberal, I take my stand for what I think is best for the people or me. I go off of what I care most about for my family and friends. I think everyone should have a work ethic, I don't believe in handouts from the government, if you give to your country, your community, your state, with service or time you deserve to get back something the people who you helped retain the freedom, if you did not serve and you do not have a job, then you need to rely on the goodness of other people's hearts or compassion not from the government, or from communities and social media groups, churches food banks and shelters! but not from our federal or state government. I believe in the constitution and we all should stand by it and preserve it, not destroy it. It's what we all have fought for past and present future to come, I hope! I believe free choice. I believe in Darwinism, the strongest should survive, but I believe in helping mankind redeem itself, not the continued disgrace of depending on someone else to provide for them. Everyone is down in the dumps at some time in there life but living on welfare and subsidies their whole life is something else entirely. I believe in the right to protect ourselves and family and friends. I can't help you weren't raised around guns and the scare you so you don't want other US citizens to have them. Religion should never come up in politics and should never be forced a pond  anyone and taken away from anyone either. There is no reason in public school there can't be a place for both 15 minutes set a side for this before school starts or something.


I could go on and on but I will save it for another time!

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CW2 Jonathan Kantor
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This is an interesting article about the difference between Conservative and Liberals in terms of their news choices/discussions.
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CW2 Jonathan Kantor
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http://www.forwardprogressives.com/fact-checking-site-finds-fox-news-tells-truth-18-percent-time/

New poll showing everyone lies. Fox is on the bottom of the truth-telling tree.
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CW2 Jonathan Kantor
CW2 Jonathan Kantor
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That was where the link came from as it popped up in my FB feed, but the study was done by Politifact. You can check out their website here: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/

It's a fact-check site. Something is either true or it isn't. I only added the link to this thread since it was relevant, but if you read through all of the comments, you will see that we covered the validity of cable news channels pretty extensively. By the end of it, I was feeling nostalgic for the old-style Ron Burgundy news... But more in the Walter Cronkite area.
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CW2 Jonathan Kantor
CW2 Jonathan Kantor
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Now that I have seen the site, it's actually pretty interesting. I went directly to the "Pants on Fire" section and it's got some good ones on there. Plenty of Democrats to include the POTUS.
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COL Randall C.
COL Randall C.
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Politifact even had another site "Politifact Bias" start up to fact check Politifact ... here's the nuts & bolts from their FAQ:

How do you know PolitiFact is biased?

Through a variety of factors. Journalists tend to lean ideologically left. The St. Petersburg Tampa Bay Times, which started PolitiFact in conjunction with the Congressional Quarterly, is a traditionally liberal paper. We note that PolitiFact's stories appear to damage Republicans far more often than Democrats despite the fact that PF tends to choose about as many stories dealing with Republicans as for Democrats. If the selection process was blind then either proportions should be approximately even or else the party with worse ratings should receive more ratings overall according to what PolitiFact lists as its selection criteria. Plus our independent research helps confirm the hypothesis.

You admit that sometimes PolitiFact is unfair to Democrats. Doesn't that mean PolitiFact isn't biased?

No, it doesn't mean that at all, or at least it proves nothing of the kind. Ideological bias at PolitiFact is most likely expressed via a preponderance of unfair harm hitting Republicans rather than Democrats. If 95 out of 100 Democrat stories harm Democrats and 100 out of 100 Republican stories harm Republicans then that indicates a bias against Republicans, albeit a relatively insignificant bias. We think the liberal bias is far more pervasive than that, touching selection bias as well as ideological spin.

And finally, their explanation on how the bias is interjected...
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CW2 Jonathan Kantor
CW2 Jonathan Kantor
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Seriously, folks! I just discovered Politifact and was mostly amused by it! I guarantee you have spent more time on the site than I have.
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