Posted on Aug 18, 2017
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Responses: 14
I guess I really am old school. To this day I find myself saluting people I respect as part of my greeting. Granted, those civilian salutes are not near parade ground, compared to when I salute for the National Anthem. I like to salute and always have. What's the deal? It is so easy to do.
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Sgt Mike Jacobi
As an old school vet I always salute the military personnel I meet in the airport or coffee shop. Not a letter perfect Lackland Airman Basic type but a friendly respectful hiball from one warrior to another.
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MAJ Albert McCaig
I never felt “lower” than a superior officer in saluting him/her. I think it was more an affirmation that I recognized the position and authority. As I grew more comfortable in uniform, I became less conscious of my inexperience and more comfortable with the act itself. Hell, I even initiated salutes to equals and subordinates just our of courtesy.
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It tells them that they are an Officer in the United States Military and that they automatically glean a certain amount of respect based on their position and theat they should cary themselves proudly and respectfully while remaining humble in their person!
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Maj John Bell it "should" tell them that they are the low man on the totem pole. That, while yes they are officers of the military, they are just entering into said military, and owe it to the ranks above them to render the respect said higher rank deserves.
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Maj John Bell
First, they are not low man on the totem pole. When a junior initiated a salute with me, I never took it as them acknowledging that they are lower than me on the totem pole, I don't think I've ever known an officer that views the custom of saluting in that way.
Second, I clearly did not phrase my question correctly. My question has nothing to do with a junior officer saluting senior officers. As an individuals, The typical officer returns far more salutes in a given day than the typical enlisted person initiates. But you do not see posts on RP where officers complain about saluting juniors or for that matter seniors. Quite frankly, any officer that is getting an ego boost from a salute has a screw loose. That doesn't mean that a salute isn't special. It is a hand signal that you and I have a solemn agreement.
The junior agrees to offer immediate intelligent obedience, symbolized by a salute. In return the senior owes the junior every effort to be a technically, tactically, operationally, and strategically proficient officer. Furthermore, the senior owes the junior wise leadership, all symbolized by the returned salute. When I returned a junior's salute I was reaffirming the promise to NEVER take my obligation to that junior lightly.
Why don't two civilians with no affiliation passing on the sidewalk salute? Because they don't owe each other more than common courtesy
Edit
Second, I clearly did not phrase my question correctly. My question has nothing to do with a junior officer saluting senior officers. As an individuals, The typical officer returns far more salutes in a given day than the typical enlisted person initiates. But you do not see posts on RP where officers complain about saluting juniors or for that matter seniors. Quite frankly, any officer that is getting an ego boost from a salute has a screw loose. That doesn't mean that a salute isn't special. It is a hand signal that you and I have a solemn agreement.
The junior agrees to offer immediate intelligent obedience, symbolized by a salute. In return the senior owes the junior every effort to be a technically, tactically, operationally, and strategically proficient officer. Furthermore, the senior owes the junior wise leadership, all symbolized by the returned salute. When I returned a junior's salute I was reaffirming the promise to NEVER take my obligation to that junior lightly.
Why don't two civilians with no affiliation passing on the sidewalk salute? Because they don't owe each other more than common courtesy
Edit
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Saluting a 2nd Lt, emphasizes the fact that responsibilities run both up and down. Considering the NCO he returns the salute to may be crucial to his staying alive in combat tomorrow, that Lt would be well advised to return that salute crisply
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Don't know if times changed, but as a newbie Ensign, I saluted anything because I didn't want to screw up or garner unnecessary attention. Even then, if you told me the O-4 was returning my salute out of respect, many sure as hell didn't act like they respected anything. Notions of high end values when you're a kid don't tend to compute. It was just something that was done. My wife quickly learned to walk on my left side to avoid the rapid fire arm. Years later, it was funny visiting West Point where you could see the walking patterns by both Cadets and Officers vary to minimize the saluting opportunities. Looked like a wallflower convention at the prom.
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2LT (Join to see)
It's harder in the Navy sir. As a young Marine on NAS Pensacola I saluted Chiefs all the time. They hated it!
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Junior officers should be honored that their being saluted, it means they earned that priviledge, it shows a sign of respect for their rank. When enlisted see them saluting senior officers that shows that the jr. officer is being respectful to his higher ups, and it should a sign to enlisted to be of like mind to any officer.
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Maj John Bell
I clearly did not phrase my question correctly. My question has nothing to do with a junior officer saluting senior officers. As individuals, The typical officer returns far more salutes in a given day than the typical enlisted person initiates.
I submit that a good officer does not take the custom as an ego stroke from the junior, but as a reminder of the officers responsibilities to the subordinate.
I submit that a good officer does not take the custom as an ego stroke from the junior, but as a reminder of the officers responsibilities to the subordinate.
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SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth
Maj John Bell - I'm not nor ever was a typical EM, I felt it was my duty to salute any officer that I met, and to show him or her the proper respect.
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According to his biography, Christy Puller, after observing a new lieutenant receiving multiple salutes from an enlisted man without returning them, asked the young lieutenant what was going on. The young lieutenant replied that the enlisted man had failed to salute him, and he was correcting the breach of military courtesy. General Puller advised him that he was exactly correct, military courtesies must be adhered to. He then told the young lieutenant that every salute must be returned, and to get busy returning those salutes.
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Gawd if you have to justify why an officer must salute back, they shouldn't be an officer.
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It should tell them I know how to follow the rules...
Maj John Bell - I've read your take on the salute, and I respect that it held a much deeper meaning to you. I'd imagine this also came through in your leadership style as well. However, to the average enlisted Service Member, I very much doubt they will ever see it from your perspective, and the reason being that actions speak louder than other actions... There have been very FEW officers in my short career so far that I have felt your described type of "salute contract" with. Granted, it could just be confirmation bias causing my memories to ignore all of the neutral experiences I have had in-passing.
Maj John Bell - I've read your take on the salute, and I respect that it held a much deeper meaning to you. I'd imagine this also came through in your leadership style as well. However, to the average enlisted Service Member, I very much doubt they will ever see it from your perspective, and the reason being that actions speak louder than other actions... There have been very FEW officers in my short career so far that I have felt your described type of "salute contract" with. Granted, it could just be confirmation bias causing my memories to ignore all of the neutral experiences I have had in-passing.
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A officer is an officer junior or senior. Why would you salute a Major and not a Lieutenant?
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SP5 Norman McGill
You are so right Maj. Bell and I stand corrected. It should tell the Lt. that here is one of the people that I am responsible for and returning the salute acknowledges that responsibility. For me it was a privilege to be in the military, it was a privilege to go to boot camp, it was a privilege to be taught to be a helicopter mechanic and later it was a privilege to be allowed to cook for my 250 troops. It was also a privilege to meet and salute any and all officers that I came in contact with. And now it has been a privilege to relearn how to spell privilege. Darn I'm getting old.
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Customs and Courtesies
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