Posted on Nov 19, 2014
Hagel says putting women in combat jobs is important, but not easy
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From: Marine Corps Times
CAMP LEJEUNE, N.C. — Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said integrating women into combat units is "not easy" but is an important change that will ultimately strengthen the force.
"We want to maximize all of our abilities, all of our talent, from all of our people in this country. It's the right thing to do," Hagel told about 200 Marines during a visit here Tuesday.
"We are a country … that believes strongly that every individual deserves the same opportunities — if you are capable and you qualify and you can do the job," Hagel said
"We're not going to lower standards."
During his visit to the Marine base, Hagel spoke with several female Marines who are currently training to serve in a combat arms unit. Most jobs in the combat arms career fields remain closed to women, but the services are preparing to lift most or all of those restrictions by January 2016.
The Marine Corps is training dozens of female Marines to serve in combat arms units. That process is under close study by officials both in and outside the military to help determine the best way to transition women into the operational force. Experts are tracking things like physical performance, injury rates and cultural dynamics that result from gender-integrated combat units.
The Army is undertaking a similar process.
Pentagon policy states that all gender-based restrictions will be lifted by January 2016. If service leaders determine that some jobs should remain men-only, they will have to submit a detailed request to the defense secretary for an exemption to the new policy.
Hagel acknowledged the challenges that the Army and Marine Corps face.
Related: Corps to tackle gender bias as combat jobs open to women
"I compliment everybody who is engaged in this effort. I know its not easy. I know we are dealing with cultural issues. We're dealing with standards. We're not going to lower standards," he said.
Cpl. Rebecca Floto is a 22-year-old Marine who has trained to become an anti-tank missleman. At a shooting range in the woods here, Floto was among several Marines on Tuesday who hustled up a hill and fired a shoulder-launch multi-purpose assault weapon, known as a SMAW
At just a little over 5 feet tall and 115 pounds, the powerful blast from the 83mm round shook her small frame.
"It's just a kick to the chest, but in a good way," she said moments later. "It's just an adrenalin rush."
Her current career field is combat camera, but she's eager to move into the combat arms if the Marine Corps' policy allows it.
"I just want to feel more a part of the Marine Corps mission, have more of a purpose," she said.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/pentagon/2014/11/18/hagel-women-in-combat/19234481/
CAMP LEJEUNE, N.C. — Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said integrating women into combat units is "not easy" but is an important change that will ultimately strengthen the force.
"We want to maximize all of our abilities, all of our talent, from all of our people in this country. It's the right thing to do," Hagel told about 200 Marines during a visit here Tuesday.
"We are a country … that believes strongly that every individual deserves the same opportunities — if you are capable and you qualify and you can do the job," Hagel said
"We're not going to lower standards."
During his visit to the Marine base, Hagel spoke with several female Marines who are currently training to serve in a combat arms unit. Most jobs in the combat arms career fields remain closed to women, but the services are preparing to lift most or all of those restrictions by January 2016.
The Marine Corps is training dozens of female Marines to serve in combat arms units. That process is under close study by officials both in and outside the military to help determine the best way to transition women into the operational force. Experts are tracking things like physical performance, injury rates and cultural dynamics that result from gender-integrated combat units.
The Army is undertaking a similar process.
Pentagon policy states that all gender-based restrictions will be lifted by January 2016. If service leaders determine that some jobs should remain men-only, they will have to submit a detailed request to the defense secretary for an exemption to the new policy.
Hagel acknowledged the challenges that the Army and Marine Corps face.
Related: Corps to tackle gender bias as combat jobs open to women
"I compliment everybody who is engaged in this effort. I know its not easy. I know we are dealing with cultural issues. We're dealing with standards. We're not going to lower standards," he said.
Cpl. Rebecca Floto is a 22-year-old Marine who has trained to become an anti-tank missleman. At a shooting range in the woods here, Floto was among several Marines on Tuesday who hustled up a hill and fired a shoulder-launch multi-purpose assault weapon, known as a SMAW
At just a little over 5 feet tall and 115 pounds, the powerful blast from the 83mm round shook her small frame.
"It's just a kick to the chest, but in a good way," she said moments later. "It's just an adrenalin rush."
Her current career field is combat camera, but she's eager to move into the combat arms if the Marine Corps' policy allows it.
"I just want to feel more a part of the Marine Corps mission, have more of a purpose," she said.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/pentagon/2014/11/18/hagel-women-in-combat/19234481/
Posted in these groups: 
Combat
Women in the Military
Combat Women in the Military
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 19
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It's not that difficult. You just parachute them there and get out of the way. They'll do just fine.
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Okay, I'll be the 'bad guy' here. First, let me say that if ANYONE wants to go into a combat MOS, then I am totally okay with it, as long as they are able to meet the standard. Not the his/her standard, the standard. I find it kind of funny that we are talking about letting female Soldiers into combat roles using one standard, yet we still have two separate standards for the APFT. Shouldn't we start at 'one standard' here before going moving forward with 'one standard' for MOS training?
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SGT Erik Prano
Maybe a possibility, is to meet the male standard for the APFT as a requirement for a combat MOS, might be a good compromise.
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PO2 Kimberly Miller
I wouldn't call you the bad guy. I would actually agree, when it's combat related, it doesn't matter where men and women's physical strengths differ. There should be one standard. For APFT's - there's always going to be a variance just due to physical make-ups of our bodies being different, but the gap between the two are too far apart. I always strove to hit as close to the males standard as I could. Never quite got there, but I never stopped trying. I could knock out the sit-ups/crunches like nobody's business. The run I could fall within parameters, the push-ups - not so great. For ASF - pull-ups - again not very great. But the lines between the requirements for men and women can be pulled in closer together to me. Those wanting to enter combat - absolutely meet the same standard or don't go into combat to slow everyone else down or have to worry about you keeping up and staying covered or covering your fellow brother or sister.
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PO1 William Bargar
Okay, I usually do not comment on these types of discussions. However, I have a Daughter who is active duty Navy and I also served 20+ years of USMC & USN service. All I want to say is that no matter who or what circumstances there will never be a totally FAIR or EQUAL answer to not only this question, but most controversial questions or situations in the military. Personally I would have a difficult time with this as well......But I would lean towards allowing women in combat as long as they can do everything within combat standards.
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My question is why does Cpl. Rebecca Floto not think that her current MOS is an important part of the Marine Corps and what she does has purpose? I think I would not be happy with Cpl. Flota I was combat cameraman.
Of course, she is right, Infantry, and especially Anti-Armor Infantry, is the most important job in the military. Where she is in error is that a MAW is as important as a HAW system...but I have hope she will learn from her errors.
Of course, she is right, Infantry, and especially Anti-Armor Infantry, is the most important job in the military. Where she is in error is that a MAW is as important as a HAW system...but I have hope she will learn from her errors.
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Lets look at the 68W. Both men and women. It was called the Combat Medic until someone realized it was not politically correct and changed the name to Health Care Specialist because females can not be in combat roles. The responsibilities did not change nor did the required qualifications. Both men and women are on the battler field or front lines risking everything to bring everyone home. Both men and women are on patrol (with their gear, aid bag, weapon, ect) spend weeks away from the fob, save lives, dodge bullets and fire back. Being a Medic regardless of the "politically correct" title is a combat role that females have excelled in for years.
Now lets address the APFT. As a female I have to do less push-ups and have a longer 2 Mile run time than males do to pass an APFT but that is where the differences stop. In AIT if you can not drag/lift a 150lb to 200lb mannequin or battle (unassisted) you do not pass. No one looks at you and says "well she's a female so its ok". You are training for life and death situations and there is not a male and female standard. There is only one standard and it is a Go or NoGo. So in my opinion as long as the AIT requirements are equal the APFT argument is invalid.
Now lets address the APFT. As a female I have to do less push-ups and have a longer 2 Mile run time than males do to pass an APFT but that is where the differences stop. In AIT if you can not drag/lift a 150lb to 200lb mannequin or battle (unassisted) you do not pass. No one looks at you and says "well she's a female so its ok". You are training for life and death situations and there is not a male and female standard. There is only one standard and it is a Go or NoGo. So in my opinion as long as the AIT requirements are equal the APFT argument is invalid.
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SSG (Join to see)
False reports will spike upwards and something has to be done to cut those down as an integration happens once it becomes a reality which it inevitably will due to social changes within America
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SGT Alicia Brenneis
as a serious question... what makes you think "false" reports will spike? If we are being honest, I imagine a great many of the complaints will be true complaints. Men(not all) have a hard time accepting the invasion of women into something that has been only male since its creation. It is a natural, culturally groomed reaction for them to have. Not all men will behave appropriately to the change. I am not saying all reports will be true but I am interested in knowing why you think specifically false reports will spike.
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Sgt (Join to see)
Sorry to intrude on this but I just wanna throw this out there. There's no denying that Females can do the job, however integrating them into a combat platoon puts stress the rules and living conditions of the platoon. Since getting word that women will be joining us sometime in the near future certain things have been changing around the barracks. No longer are we allowed to hang around outside grilling shirtless and enjoying the sun, apparently because if a female were to walk by that could be sexual harassment. Also according to higher ups, we need to clean up our language and failure to do so could result in a negative counseling. Being in guns platoon we are used to profanity and limitless vulgar remarks. Not being able to express ourselves in this way will increase the stress of living together and I think lead to more fights.
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SGT Alicia Brenneis
LCpl Andrew Saunders, I see what you are saying and I feel your pain. The female who I talked about earlier ruined everything we worked for. The mutual respect and acceptance the rest of us built and earned over the previous two years was gone. Everything changed because of her. We were moved away from the males, men we were battle tested with, for "everyone's" safety. We were basically ostracized because of her actions. We hated her. I still do if I am being honest. One female changed how an entire battalion interacted with us. I do feel bad about the changes you are facing but I see the necessity. The best advice I can give you is to take a step back and feel out who you can be yourself with. Over time you will be able to figure out who could care less if you swore or act like men. My mom gets me all the time for my language when I visit. Think of it like new guy. Is he going to run and tell on everything you do? If so don't invite him to your crap. Some of the changes are going to be just plain dumb like grilling without a shirt on. Like I said it took the original 12 females in my company 2 years to be accepted. Of course don't be "that guy" who ends up drunk and alone in a girls room and don't let your buddies end up that way either. and for heavens sake DONT DATE THE GIRLS IN YOUR COMPANY!
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I don't envy the SECDEF but it is past due. If they are qualified there is no job that they should be denied to include combat.
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LTC (Join to see)
Agreed. But the worse thing we can do is change the standards to accommodate women--that is a disservice to them and their units. Standards are at the core of our existence, don't hinder women by "accommodating" them that will only demean their credibility.
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This has been a long debate..if u ask most women besides those who have something to prove..they will tell u that they dont want a combat job. In combat a man will save a woman before a man...this will be an issue..a woman is not made like a man and she has to clean herself more frequently or develop yeast infection etc.....were as a man does not. Our world is changing because of social media and politics. If women are allowed in specific combat jobs..it must be respectfully thought out right so to not cause issues.
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SGT Alicia Brenneis
I think the ones who do want to be in a combat MOS should be given the opportunity to try and men should be given to opportunity to accept them. The truth is, it is up to females to prove they are good enough and can be a worthy team member. Some people do not like it but it is the truth. The burden is on us. Females can demand equal job opportunities all day long and have a right to do so. They can not expect immediate acceptance just because the field opens up. It will be a long road to true integration if it does happen. However, It would be great if objectors would stop refusing to let them try and the say women "can't" handle it. How do they know if they never let them try? Only one of two things will happen, women will prove they can or can't. If they can't than no harm done, "you" were right. If they can, than the army just gained another fully capable soldier.
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SGT Alicia Brenneis
I think the ones who do want to be in a combat MOS should be given the opportunity to try and men should be given to opportunity to accept them. The truth is, it is up to females to prove they are good enough and can be a worthy team member. Some people do not like it but it is the truth. The burden is on us. Females can demand equal job opportunities all day long and have a right to do so. They can not expect immediate acceptance just because the field opens up. It will be a long road to true integration if it does happen. However, It would be great if objectors would stop refusing to let them try and the say women "can't" handle it. How do they know if they never let them try? Only one of two things will happen, women will prove they can or can't. If they can't than no harm done, "you" were right. If they can, than the army just gained another fully capable soldier.
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TSgt Kristin Parsons
I agree to an extent however I don't think that women "have something to prove" just because they want a combat position. I truly believe that as long as those women can meet the same physical standards as the men, then they should have the same opportunity.
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I don't worry about the viciousness of females, I learned how dirty a woman can fight from two ex-wives, the thing I worry about is their ability to carry the combat load. Infantry soldiers carry a great deal of weight and some women can do that, most can't. It is not a life for every person, even some men can't handle it. I have two daughters and if they were physically able and had the desire, I wouldn't tell them no. The point is, the physical requirement should not be lowered to allow them in because it will just set them up for failure in the field.
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SPC Donald Moore
SGT William Howell, I have seen noncombatant females such as medics and mechanics deployed, but I have not seen any females carrying the 110 pounds of gear that the average Infantry soldier carries on a patrol. How do they hold up to that?
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SP5 Roberta Sanchez
There is no monopoly on how dies in combat. There should have been active preparation of these women for a combat roll-now they are just beginning to search for these women and the fault is the higher ups and congress. Now they are running helpter-skelter trying to meet the requirement for women in combat. No one should be blown to bits, and if they are and it doesn't bother you-you have a problem.
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SGT William Howell
I was in combat for 13 months in Iraq and continuously in Afghanistan for 23 months. I never carried a 110 pound pack. Not saying that is not required, but in this highly mobile time most people do not.
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SPC Donald Moore
I didn't say "pack", I said gear. Ballistic plate armor, ammo, water, and other accessories including radios and the rifle. Even when I was in (during the 90s) my combat load was over 70 pounds, not including my ruck and M-203. I have been told that the ballistic plates add another 30 easy. If anyone bothered to understand or even read my original post, I don't say that women can't do it and I don't say that they shouldn't do it if they want to.
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His I fool... Strengthen ???? I don't think so..... This is nothing but a agenda push.... And to weaken our forces...
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SFC Pete Meyer
Well here we are months later.. And females fail out of the marine infantry course... So like I said they will lower the standard... So YES this is a agenda... It's a shame liberals can not understand this is the military and not some 9 to 5 job. Lowering the standards gets people killed and loses wars.... http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/marine-corps-considers-lowering-standards-for-women
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SFC Pete Meyer
And I just love this part from a real officer... Not some coward... You know who you are... "Robert Maginnis, a retired Army officer and author of the book “Deadly Consequences: How Cowards Are Pushing Women Into Combat” stated that it was political correctness driving the policy, not rational analysis." So the NCO is right yet again!
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