Posted on Jun 4, 2015
"Harrisburg police officer wrongly accuses veteran, 75, of 'stolen valor'"
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This article was originally published on pennlive.com:
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An Army soldier attending Artsfest on Memorial Day thought something was fishy with the Marine uniform worn by 75-year-old Robert Ford, who was strolling along Front Street.
Ford's hat bore some wrinkles, according to the soldier's assessment, and his belt buckle looked too ornate for his rank.
The soldier enlisted the help of a Harrisburg police officer working at the event, who was a Marine, and together, they accused Ford of being a fraud.
"He's not a real Marine!" the officer shouted to the crowd gathered for the PennLive/Patriot-News Artsfest of Greater Harrisburg. "Stolen valor!"
"I was humiliated," said Ford, of Marysville.
The only problem is Ford did serve in the Marines from 1958 to 1964. He earned the rank of lance corporal.
"He's as legit as you can get," said Doug Sterner, a Vietnam veteran and archivist from Pueblo, Colo., who is nationally recognized for detecting military fraud. Sterner confirmed Ford's military service this week through Headquarters Marine Corps.
The incident in Harrisburg, Sterner said, represents a troubling trend across the country of veterans becoming vigilantes.
Veterans are angry, Sterner said, after a federal law about "stolen valor," was struck down in 2012 and a meeker version passed in its place. Under the new law, few cases are being investigated or prosecuted against people who falsely claim military awards or service, Sterner said.
"The veteran community, frustrated and upset, is saying, 'OK. We'll do it ourselves,' " Sterner said. "But what it's leading to is a bunch of hot heads. ... There's a lot of bullying going on in the community now. It's almost like hunting game, going out looking for phonies."
In many cases, veterans or others who spot inconsistences are rewarded for their efforts. In Pennsylvania alone, people outed Jim Moats, of Newville, for his fake Navy Seal story; Brian Khan, of Harrisburg, for pretending to be a Marine; and Mark Kauffman, a veteran who's disabled status became an issue in March.
B.G. "Jug" Burkett, a Dallas-area Vietnam veteran who wrote a book entitled, "Stolen Valor," understands why people get upset at fakes who try to gain respect by claiming they served "shoulder to shoulder with those who gave their lives for America."
Burkett has helped in numerous prosecutions of fake military war heroes. But he said what happened in Harrisburg was a shame.
"I think that cop was out of line, approaching him like that with no evidence," Burkett said. "This is an older guy and maybe they didn't dress the same way 50 years ago."
Sterner agreed.
"I'd rather see a dozen phonies get kudos they don't deserve than besmirch the reputation of one innocent veteran," he said. "Even if I see something totally outlandish, I'm not going to jump. ... You don't just go up and confront people."
Ford asked to file a complaint with the Harrisburg Police Department over the way the officer, Detective John O'Connor, treated him. Capt. Deric Moody promised an investigation.
But as of Wednesday night, no one had contacted Ford or apologized to him. Moody told PennLive he still was trying to confirm Ford's military status.
Anthony Flaynik, the commandant of the local detachment of the Marine Corps League, said his group was doing their own investigation into the police department's actions.
"He gives up his time volunteering for honor guard for veteran funerals every three weeks," Flaynik said of Ford. "He comes out in the rain, shine, hot, cold. We need to do what we can to help him."
The incident
Ford has a tradition on Memorial Day. He dons his dress blue uniform, visits the cemetery, plays "Taps" on his bugle in a wreath-laying ceremony along the Susquehanna River, then attends Artsfest, where he looks for presents for his granddaughter.
But this year, as he was perusing the artware, a uniformed officer approached along with a man in civilian clothes.
The officer asked for Ford's unit and his military occupation specialty.
Ford answered and noted he specialized in machine guns, rockets and flame-throwers.
"I have to investigate for 'stolen valor,' " the officer said, which Ford said he found insulting.
Still, Ford let it pass and recommended the officer attend the wreath-laying ceremony next year. The officer simply walked away.
Ford returned to shopping, but 10 minutes later was again confronted by the officer in front of The Patriot-News booth.
"Where did you go to boot camp?" the officer said.
Ford said he couldn't figure out why the officer was questioning his service. Ford hadn't claimed any war heroics and his uniform bore no combat medals.
"What am I trying to do?" Ford said. "Impersonate a lance corporal who never served in combat?"
Things quickly escalated.
"What is your problem?" Ford asked.
The officer reiterated his demand.
Fed up, Ford told the officer to leave him alone in terms that contained an expletive.
That's when the officer started shouting, Ford said.
"You don't know where you went to boot camp," the officer said, according to Ford. "You aren't a Marine."
Ford said the soldier joined in, shouting: "Stolen Valor! This man is a fake!"
Embarrassed, Ford slinked away, but the men followed. When Ford stopped and turned to face them, Ford said the officer waved his hand over his holstered weapon as if he were ready to draw it on Ford.
"I was getting very nervous," Ford said. "I was afraid to reach for my wallet."
A woman working at The Patriot-News booth, who did not want her name published, confirmed Ford's account that the officer followed Ford and yelled that Ford wasn't a Marine.
The woman said the ordeal lasted about 10 to 15 minutes. She described the officer as being antagonistic and said she believed the officer was trying to get Ford to make a move.
Eventually, Ford did retrieve his wallet to show the officer his U.S. Veterans Affairs card. The officer motioned for the soldier to examine it, Ford said.
The soldier concluded that Ford's VA card was a "fake and that anybody can print those out," Ford said.
That's when Ford asked for the officer's supervisor. Ford walked a block or so to meet Capt. Moody, with the officer and soldier trailing.
Moody talked to Ford and inspected his identification cards by holding them up in the air and tilting them, drawing more attention and embarrassing Ford.
The kerfuffle attracted a television news crew.
"People were gawking at the scene," Ford said. "People must have been thinking this was really bad."
Eventually, Moody, also a Marine, reportedly told Ford "it would be best if he just left, to avoid the camera and all the people that were now watching."
Ford refused. He merged back in with the crowd, but noticed the officer lurking nearby, arms folded with his eyes fixed on Ford. Ford said he was disappointed Moody had not instructed the officer to move on.
Ford had hoped Moody would set things right. Instead, Ford said he felt even worse after the encounter.
"I felt their attitude was like, 'So what.' " Ford said. "I've spent almost my whole life working on veterans' issues."
Ford said he has launched programs to help veterans, is active in his local Marine Corp League and occasionally contributes letters about veterans' issues to the Opinion section of The Patriot-News.
Moody said the officer didn't curse nor put his hands on Ford so the incident didn't rise to the level of an internal affairs investigation. Instead, Moody said he was conducting an informal review of the incident.
"There were inconsistencies in his uniform," Moody said of Ford. "If an apology is due, then an apology is due."
Get evidence first
Experts who advocate for veterans and root out military fraud say public humiliation is not the way to go when one suspects something askew about a military uniform.
Older soldiers can forget the proper order of ribbons, but "that doesn't mean they're a phony," said Sterner, who runs a website called Home for Heroes. "Even real heroes make mistakes."
Sterner has accumulated a database of top military war medals as one method to guard against fraudulent claims.
Even with Sterner's background, he said he has only confronted one person in 15 years over "stolen valor" and that's because he knew the names of all the medal recipients for a particular award being claimed.
Sterner recommended that people concerned with military fraud should simply take down a person's information and "get their ducks in a row."
"I'm not going to confront or accost someone," Sterner said. "I'm going to get my evidence first."
Burkett, who lectures FBI agents and government-fraud investigators, advises on his website how people can check their suspicions by requesting the actual military records.
"I'm just surprised at this cop," Burkett said. "Most of the time, a real vet would not do that. ... People should ask questions first, then go check things out later."
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/06/harrisburg_artsfest_veteran_st.html#incart_m-rpt-2
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An Army soldier attending Artsfest on Memorial Day thought something was fishy with the Marine uniform worn by 75-year-old Robert Ford, who was strolling along Front Street.
Ford's hat bore some wrinkles, according to the soldier's assessment, and his belt buckle looked too ornate for his rank.
The soldier enlisted the help of a Harrisburg police officer working at the event, who was a Marine, and together, they accused Ford of being a fraud.
"He's not a real Marine!" the officer shouted to the crowd gathered for the PennLive/Patriot-News Artsfest of Greater Harrisburg. "Stolen valor!"
"I was humiliated," said Ford, of Marysville.
The only problem is Ford did serve in the Marines from 1958 to 1964. He earned the rank of lance corporal.
"He's as legit as you can get," said Doug Sterner, a Vietnam veteran and archivist from Pueblo, Colo., who is nationally recognized for detecting military fraud. Sterner confirmed Ford's military service this week through Headquarters Marine Corps.
The incident in Harrisburg, Sterner said, represents a troubling trend across the country of veterans becoming vigilantes.
Veterans are angry, Sterner said, after a federal law about "stolen valor," was struck down in 2012 and a meeker version passed in its place. Under the new law, few cases are being investigated or prosecuted against people who falsely claim military awards or service, Sterner said.
"The veteran community, frustrated and upset, is saying, 'OK. We'll do it ourselves,' " Sterner said. "But what it's leading to is a bunch of hot heads. ... There's a lot of bullying going on in the community now. It's almost like hunting game, going out looking for phonies."
In many cases, veterans or others who spot inconsistences are rewarded for their efforts. In Pennsylvania alone, people outed Jim Moats, of Newville, for his fake Navy Seal story; Brian Khan, of Harrisburg, for pretending to be a Marine; and Mark Kauffman, a veteran who's disabled status became an issue in March.
B.G. "Jug" Burkett, a Dallas-area Vietnam veteran who wrote a book entitled, "Stolen Valor," understands why people get upset at fakes who try to gain respect by claiming they served "shoulder to shoulder with those who gave their lives for America."
Burkett has helped in numerous prosecutions of fake military war heroes. But he said what happened in Harrisburg was a shame.
"I think that cop was out of line, approaching him like that with no evidence," Burkett said. "This is an older guy and maybe they didn't dress the same way 50 years ago."
Sterner agreed.
"I'd rather see a dozen phonies get kudos they don't deserve than besmirch the reputation of one innocent veteran," he said. "Even if I see something totally outlandish, I'm not going to jump. ... You don't just go up and confront people."
Ford asked to file a complaint with the Harrisburg Police Department over the way the officer, Detective John O'Connor, treated him. Capt. Deric Moody promised an investigation.
But as of Wednesday night, no one had contacted Ford or apologized to him. Moody told PennLive he still was trying to confirm Ford's military status.
Anthony Flaynik, the commandant of the local detachment of the Marine Corps League, said his group was doing their own investigation into the police department's actions.
"He gives up his time volunteering for honor guard for veteran funerals every three weeks," Flaynik said of Ford. "He comes out in the rain, shine, hot, cold. We need to do what we can to help him."
The incident
Ford has a tradition on Memorial Day. He dons his dress blue uniform, visits the cemetery, plays "Taps" on his bugle in a wreath-laying ceremony along the Susquehanna River, then attends Artsfest, where he looks for presents for his granddaughter.
But this year, as he was perusing the artware, a uniformed officer approached along with a man in civilian clothes.
The officer asked for Ford's unit and his military occupation specialty.
Ford answered and noted he specialized in machine guns, rockets and flame-throwers.
"I have to investigate for 'stolen valor,' " the officer said, which Ford said he found insulting.
Still, Ford let it pass and recommended the officer attend the wreath-laying ceremony next year. The officer simply walked away.
Ford returned to shopping, but 10 minutes later was again confronted by the officer in front of The Patriot-News booth.
"Where did you go to boot camp?" the officer said.
Ford said he couldn't figure out why the officer was questioning his service. Ford hadn't claimed any war heroics and his uniform bore no combat medals.
"What am I trying to do?" Ford said. "Impersonate a lance corporal who never served in combat?"
Things quickly escalated.
"What is your problem?" Ford asked.
The officer reiterated his demand.
Fed up, Ford told the officer to leave him alone in terms that contained an expletive.
That's when the officer started shouting, Ford said.
"You don't know where you went to boot camp," the officer said, according to Ford. "You aren't a Marine."
Ford said the soldier joined in, shouting: "Stolen Valor! This man is a fake!"
Embarrassed, Ford slinked away, but the men followed. When Ford stopped and turned to face them, Ford said the officer waved his hand over his holstered weapon as if he were ready to draw it on Ford.
"I was getting very nervous," Ford said. "I was afraid to reach for my wallet."
A woman working at The Patriot-News booth, who did not want her name published, confirmed Ford's account that the officer followed Ford and yelled that Ford wasn't a Marine.
The woman said the ordeal lasted about 10 to 15 minutes. She described the officer as being antagonistic and said she believed the officer was trying to get Ford to make a move.
Eventually, Ford did retrieve his wallet to show the officer his U.S. Veterans Affairs card. The officer motioned for the soldier to examine it, Ford said.
The soldier concluded that Ford's VA card was a "fake and that anybody can print those out," Ford said.
That's when Ford asked for the officer's supervisor. Ford walked a block or so to meet Capt. Moody, with the officer and soldier trailing.
Moody talked to Ford and inspected his identification cards by holding them up in the air and tilting them, drawing more attention and embarrassing Ford.
The kerfuffle attracted a television news crew.
"People were gawking at the scene," Ford said. "People must have been thinking this was really bad."
Eventually, Moody, also a Marine, reportedly told Ford "it would be best if he just left, to avoid the camera and all the people that were now watching."
Ford refused. He merged back in with the crowd, but noticed the officer lurking nearby, arms folded with his eyes fixed on Ford. Ford said he was disappointed Moody had not instructed the officer to move on.
Ford had hoped Moody would set things right. Instead, Ford said he felt even worse after the encounter.
"I felt their attitude was like, 'So what.' " Ford said. "I've spent almost my whole life working on veterans' issues."
Ford said he has launched programs to help veterans, is active in his local Marine Corp League and occasionally contributes letters about veterans' issues to the Opinion section of The Patriot-News.
Moody said the officer didn't curse nor put his hands on Ford so the incident didn't rise to the level of an internal affairs investigation. Instead, Moody said he was conducting an informal review of the incident.
"There were inconsistencies in his uniform," Moody said of Ford. "If an apology is due, then an apology is due."
Get evidence first
Experts who advocate for veterans and root out military fraud say public humiliation is not the way to go when one suspects something askew about a military uniform.
Older soldiers can forget the proper order of ribbons, but "that doesn't mean they're a phony," said Sterner, who runs a website called Home for Heroes. "Even real heroes make mistakes."
Sterner has accumulated a database of top military war medals as one method to guard against fraudulent claims.
Even with Sterner's background, he said he has only confronted one person in 15 years over "stolen valor" and that's because he knew the names of all the medal recipients for a particular award being claimed.
Sterner recommended that people concerned with military fraud should simply take down a person's information and "get their ducks in a row."
"I'm not going to confront or accost someone," Sterner said. "I'm going to get my evidence first."
Burkett, who lectures FBI agents and government-fraud investigators, advises on his website how people can check their suspicions by requesting the actual military records.
"I'm just surprised at this cop," Burkett said. "Most of the time, a real vet would not do that. ... People should ask questions first, then go check things out later."
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/06/harrisburg_artsfest_veteran_st.html#incart_m-rpt-2
Posted in these groups: 
Stolen Valor
Stolen Valor
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 147
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from the pictures on that website...mr ford WAS wearing the incorrect buckle...as a lcpl, his buckle should be empty...the EGA is worn by NCOs and the EGA and a wreath is worn by SNCOs.....but other then that...no big deal....and as a former Marine...I really wouldnt care if he was wearing the wrong buckle or not...dude is 75 years old...
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SGT Anthony Bussing
after doing a real quick google...id say yes...it hasnt changed...but Im still not 100 percent sure...I know sometime when the fella mentioned in the article was in, the Corps went though some changed (late 50s, early 60s) changed ranks, uniforms etc...but again...its a belt buckle and the guy is like 75 years old...speaking as a former US Marine...the only trouble Id give him...was a handshake and maybe a hug and pat on the back...
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SGT Anthony Bussing
Jeff,
here is a really good read...if your into that old stuff....lol
http://www.mcu.usmc.mil/historydivision/Pages/Publications/Publication%20PDFs/ranks%20and%20grades% [login to see] .pdf
here is a really good read...if your into that old stuff....lol
http://www.mcu.usmc.mil/historydivision/Pages/Publications/Publication%20PDFs/ranks%20and%20grades% [login to see] .pdf
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That dumb-ass cop should be made to PUBLICLY APOLOGIZE to Marine Veteran Ford. He should also be made to clean the yard of this Veteran, as a form of extra duty (filmed and covered by their local news TV stations). He should also be made to write a paper (which should be posted in the local newspaper) concerning the proper way to handle a situation if one comes across a potential stolen valor / fraud. This type of behavior is inexcusable to say the least.
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Interesting situation, police officers often go with the 'gut' instinct. In this case it does not serve him well.
I find it interesting how long it takes for the police officer to be convinced that his initial assessment was incorrect. Lesson learned on not jumping to conclusions.
I find it interesting how long it takes for the police officer to be convinced that his initial assessment was incorrect. Lesson learned on not jumping to conclusions.
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SGT Jerry Ericsson
Well, I did 24 years in a squad car, and I am here to tell you, a city cop has NO duty, or authority to enforce federal uniform violations, when I served as the Chief of my Department, had one of my officers pulled this crap they would have had a few days off without pay to think about their real duties.
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From my experience, no faker is ever just an ordinary guy doing his job. Nobody is just a mess cook, or, like Mr. Ford, a peacetime veteran. Fakers are always SEALs or other Special Forces, Top Gun pilots, Rangers, or Senior Officers or very Senior enlisted folks. They wear combat ribbons or badges and some pretty high-octane combat awards. An example: a local guy claimed to be a Naval Academy double-major graduate, SEAL, Commander, and his Facebook page showed him wearing the Navy Cross. In my 22-year Navy career, I met only 3 SEAL Commanders, not one of them a USNA grad, so this guy was suspect from the start. No faker is ever Joe Shit the Rag Man or even just a skimmer-qualified, staff weenie like me.
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PO2 Sharon Lopez
Cdr, I couldn't help laughing as I read the closing to your post. You hit the nail on the head! Fakers want to be more important than the average person.
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SP5 David Cox
Well, I was a cook, before they changed me into a space shuttle special forces door gunner! ;) Truly you hit this on the head. It's just like those "past-life regressions' - everyone was always royalty, not a single one was some poor peasant who died of dysentery at 15 years. (Truthfully, I was a 74F - computer programmer)
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CDR Michael Goldschmidt
SP5 David Cox - Exactly. Everyone was Caesar or Cleopatra or Napoleon or a Pharoah or something. No one ever emptied the shitters on the Royal Barge.
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Suspended Profile
I hate Stolen Valor. I hate when someone turns up and is obviously a fraud.
But making a scene, especially when it comes to vets drawing Social Security, is some serious puerile crap. Number one, I don't expect a veteran over the age of 60 to go drop money on modern uniform trappings. Number two, part of my whole "the dude abides" motif is respecting my elders. My religious faith also places a heavy emphasis on NOT embarrassing someone even if you think they're wrong about something.
For the sake of not looking like a bunch of idiots to the overwhelming number of civilians out there, can we please, please, please reserve our public expressions of outrage for Stolen Valor instances that are part of a criminal undertaking, like VA fraud, etc? Or the more obvious instances, like when a guy puts SEALs down on his resume. Going after an old guy at a Memorial Day event is not "winning" anything, it's just making us all look like clowns.
Harrisburg is right up the road, and Mayor Papenfuse is an acquaintance. I will be writing a letter about this officer. The city, let alone HPD, owes this man an apology.
But making a scene, especially when it comes to vets drawing Social Security, is some serious puerile crap. Number one, I don't expect a veteran over the age of 60 to go drop money on modern uniform trappings. Number two, part of my whole "the dude abides" motif is respecting my elders. My religious faith also places a heavy emphasis on NOT embarrassing someone even if you think they're wrong about something.
For the sake of not looking like a bunch of idiots to the overwhelming number of civilians out there, can we please, please, please reserve our public expressions of outrage for Stolen Valor instances that are part of a criminal undertaking, like VA fraud, etc? Or the more obvious instances, like when a guy puts SEALs down on his resume. Going after an old guy at a Memorial Day event is not "winning" anything, it's just making us all look like clowns.
Harrisburg is right up the road, and Mayor Papenfuse is an acquaintance. I will be writing a letter about this officer. The city, let alone HPD, owes this man an apology.
Suspended Profile
Papenfuse said he thought the officers acted "appropriately." I got a form response that he sent the media, too. I think a compelled apology from both the officer and Capt. Moody would be appropriate, but apparently, the City of Harrisburg believes differently.
Suspended Profile
But then I see that he's trying to arrange a personal apology - that wasn't in what I received from him. Still, I think the city owes the vet an apology, not just the officers. The conduct reflects on our capital city, and that's not cool.
1LT William Clardy
Could you update us, SSG Brian Kresge? Did the vet ever get any apologies from the police or from the city proper?
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Suspended Profile
The police chief apologized on behalf of the department, and the officer involved received extra training. To his credit, Ford didn't want any professional recrimination for the officer.
Mayor Papenfuse, clumsily did one of those "both sides are at fault", which prompted Ford to refuse to participate in a brokered meeting because of that. I cannot fault him for that. He did nothing wrong except be in a place where a police officer's histrionics got the better of him. That was pretty much the conclusion of that.
Mayor Papenfuse, clumsily did one of those "both sides are at fault", which prompted Ford to refuse to participate in a brokered meeting because of that. I cannot fault him for that. He did nothing wrong except be in a place where a police officer's histrionics got the better of him. That was pretty much the conclusion of that.
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THIS IS MY OPINION:
I saw this and laughed. Not because how rude it was, but because that is what happens when people go willy-nilly and start trying to defend something that doesn't need to be defended. Valor and honor is earned. And it cannot be taken. People pretending to be something they aren't stealing anything from me or my valor. What is it doing is causing that person to kind of honor me. When someone emulates you they are rendering you a high form of respect. They have decided that their life is so shitty that they need to pretend to be someone they aren't to at least feel the honor those people have. If stores and whom ever give then stuff for it then truthfully that to me isn't stealing either that is just bad business. Why should veterans and/or fake veterans be responsible for what discount a store does or does not give? I don't care about a discount and that discount or whatever isn't why I served. And that discount being given to someone else doesn't make my service less proud. This whole stolen valor crap is just that. If a person claims to be a navy ranger who saved sea lion team 4 alpha then let them. It doesn't lesson my service or even yours. It just makes them seem stupid. Just as stupid as seeing actors wear uniforms wrong in a movie.
I guess I look at it this way…I do not lose anything if George Ucktard wears a uniform and gets 10% off a churro. My service isn't damaged and nor is the military. So why care? Why is it that important to catch a faker? Trust me I've seen them. On Veterans Day one year I was at golden corral (paying for my meal). I saw an idiot in ASUs eating. But he had SSG on his sleeve and had it hanging on the back of his chair. I notice he had no shoulder boards and SPC rank on the collar. I approached him mentioned his uniform issues and got another helping of bourbon chicken. I didn't need to do anything beyond telling him what he needed to do to fix his uniform and it wasn't to embarrass him. I just wanted him to know he looked like an idiot. I didn't feel like I was a victim nor was anyone else that might have been around him. He was an idiot that wanted a free meal maybe if he was faking it that bad he might actually needed it.
Ok I'm losing where I am in this rant so I will sum it up. Stop looking for a stolen valor. They really aren't stealing anything. Find more important things to do with your life like love your family and share what it really means to serve with them.
I saw this and laughed. Not because how rude it was, but because that is what happens when people go willy-nilly and start trying to defend something that doesn't need to be defended. Valor and honor is earned. And it cannot be taken. People pretending to be something they aren't stealing anything from me or my valor. What is it doing is causing that person to kind of honor me. When someone emulates you they are rendering you a high form of respect. They have decided that their life is so shitty that they need to pretend to be someone they aren't to at least feel the honor those people have. If stores and whom ever give then stuff for it then truthfully that to me isn't stealing either that is just bad business. Why should veterans and/or fake veterans be responsible for what discount a store does or does not give? I don't care about a discount and that discount or whatever isn't why I served. And that discount being given to someone else doesn't make my service less proud. This whole stolen valor crap is just that. If a person claims to be a navy ranger who saved sea lion team 4 alpha then let them. It doesn't lesson my service or even yours. It just makes them seem stupid. Just as stupid as seeing actors wear uniforms wrong in a movie.
I guess I look at it this way…I do not lose anything if George Ucktard wears a uniform and gets 10% off a churro. My service isn't damaged and nor is the military. So why care? Why is it that important to catch a faker? Trust me I've seen them. On Veterans Day one year I was at golden corral (paying for my meal). I saw an idiot in ASUs eating. But he had SSG on his sleeve and had it hanging on the back of his chair. I notice he had no shoulder boards and SPC rank on the collar. I approached him mentioned his uniform issues and got another helping of bourbon chicken. I didn't need to do anything beyond telling him what he needed to do to fix his uniform and it wasn't to embarrass him. I just wanted him to know he looked like an idiot. I didn't feel like I was a victim nor was anyone else that might have been around him. He was an idiot that wanted a free meal maybe if he was faking it that bad he might actually needed it.
Ok I'm losing where I am in this rant so I will sum it up. Stop looking for a stolen valor. They really aren't stealing anything. Find more important things to do with your life like love your family and share what it really means to serve with them.
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SSgt Dustin Coy
Agreed. That said, I'll recognize that my opinion isn't in the same context as some of those as who've made multiple trips into a combat zone. I'm a veteran who served during peace time. I wasn't a fighter pilot, para-rescue, Navy SEAL/Green Beret (obviously) or insert any other high testosterone AFSC/MOS. I was an avionics technician. The medals that I had, helped for promotion testing while I was in, and that's really about it. Personally, I got more out of the relationships I made while in than any BS recognition I've gotten since as a veteran. Don't get me wrong, I'm proud to have served, and actually I think it's kind of sad that for those who play dress up, as they just look stupid. If their greatest accomplishment turns out to be able to con their way into a free meal, or "10% off a churo" as you so eloquently put it, it doesn't take anything away from me, and doesn't cost me as a taxpayer, a dime. Personally, I don't even take advantage of those kinds of "benefits," I did get a VA loan for my home, and for that I needed my DD-214, which none of those who are playing dress-up will have. So again, I really don't see how it hurts my status as a veteran really. I still have my uniforms hanging out in the garage, but I don't see any need to drag them out. Besides, while I was in, (91-98) between Generals McPeak and Fogleman, as the Chief of Staff for our branch, AFR 35-10, and replacement AFI 36-2903, for BDUs changed at least 3 times, and service dress changed once or twice as well (sorry can't remember, cuz it doesn't really matter...). I'm certain it's probably changed since as well. So if I were to put a uniform on, and go out in public chances are probably pretty high, that I'd have to start answering questions for somebody who is "new." That would probably get pretty complicated pretty fast, because my AFSC also changed 3 times (455X1A, 453X1, 2A4x1) all for the same damn job as well. I could very well see that sending a newbie (or a JEEP as we used to call them...) on a rampage screaming stolen valor. Why waste my time with that kind of thing? Along those same lines, if somebody doubts my service, so be it. I know I was there, my family knows it, I know what I did, and I recognize the education and training that translated into the job I have now, and the 6 1/2 years I traded for it all (before anybody freaks out, that you can't enlist for 6 1/2 years, I was approved for an "early out" in '98 on my second enlistment because I had a good paying job offer). Everything that matters, is right there.
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Well, part of the issue, as the gentleman in question noted, what exactly would his gain have been supposed to be?
It's one thing to call out some asshat who's basically begging in uniform - the guys who went after this fellow were simply revealing themselves as the asshats, especially since they declined to even hear his explanation.
And who hasn't been to a uniform inspection and not found some clown to be jacked up if there weren't the opportunity for a couple of pre-inspections? It should be no surprise if an old, or retired SM falls afoul of improper ribbon placement, and, as others have noted, any national guard ribbons will often confuse the issue as States will use the identical ribbon for an active duty award for a different State Guard Award.
As much as some of the new Stolen Valor hunters may not want to do so, you owe a potential veteran the opportunity to tell you about his awards and experiences; and to recognize that you may not know as much as you think you do about how the uniform was worn prior to your entry into the service.
It's one thing to call out some asshat who's basically begging in uniform - the guys who went after this fellow were simply revealing themselves as the asshats, especially since they declined to even hear his explanation.
And who hasn't been to a uniform inspection and not found some clown to be jacked up if there weren't the opportunity for a couple of pre-inspections? It should be no surprise if an old, or retired SM falls afoul of improper ribbon placement, and, as others have noted, any national guard ribbons will often confuse the issue as States will use the identical ribbon for an active duty award for a different State Guard Award.
As much as some of the new Stolen Valor hunters may not want to do so, you owe a potential veteran the opportunity to tell you about his awards and experiences; and to recognize that you may not know as much as you think you do about how the uniform was worn prior to your entry into the service.
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Cpl Keith D Williams
When I graduated from PI we didn't even get the Blues, and the graduation photo was just a Cover and part of the Blouse........beside all that, he's a 75 yo LCpl dammit hasn't he got it bad enough already. Semper Fi Gunny
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I CALLED HARRISBURG POLICE! Told them they need to apologize to that old man! For Christ's sake, do the right thing, not the quickest...
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PVT Raymond Lopez
Having spent most of my life in civilian law enforcement I can tell some funny stories about the stupidity I have seen. My point of view is that of a retired Federal Law Enforcement Officer with over 25 years of service and a graduate of the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center at Brunswick, Georgia. That is still a topic of conversations down here in Washington during Police Week. Before anyone asks we old timers have long memories and a really sick sense of humor. The young people enjoy listening to our war stories especially when we are telling stories about the rookie misadventures of their leaders. For instance I have the name of a Postal Inspector in my cell phone with his first name and the appellation “One Nut” since our hero put his Glock pistol in his trousers and had accidental discharge causing the loss of a certain body part. Then there are the law enforcement officers make mistakes with their riot guns. There is a certain retired chief of police who was carrying a loaded riot gun in his patrol car in Lecco rack pointing toward the roof of the vehicle when there was an accidental discharge causing the birth of the “Fraternal Order of Police” sunroof. Thinking about it I better save these stories for the Fraternal Order of Police because they get too many laughs there.
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That's the problem, there is no risk in being wrong (provided whom you call out doesn't open up a big can of whoop-ass upon thee).
It all boils down to "Haters gonna hate". You got something they don't. Reality is that those who have impressive decorations didn't care to gain them when they were in the act of earning them. And you cannot just join thinking you're getting any. You just gotta be the first responder to a shit-sandwich situation and handle it reasonably well. At the time, you are just doing your job and whatever else you believe is expected of you. You cannot plan it.
It all boils down to "Haters gonna hate". You got something they don't. Reality is that those who have impressive decorations didn't care to gain them when they were in the act of earning them. And you cannot just join thinking you're getting any. You just gotta be the first responder to a shit-sandwich situation and handle it reasonably well. At the time, you are just doing your job and whatever else you believe is expected of you. You cannot plan it.
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GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad
Sad but true Cpl Christopher Bishop --- I kind of wish this old vet had opened a can of whoop-ass on them. Imagine THAT headline! :-)
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1LT William Clardy
"Veteran Arrested for Assaulting Police Officer"
You know that's how it would be played out in the press, GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad. :-(
You know that's how it would be played out in the press, GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad. :-(
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