Posted on Jun 4, 2015
"Harrisburg police officer wrongly accuses veteran, 75, of 'stolen valor'"
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This article was originally published on pennlive.com:
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An Army soldier attending Artsfest on Memorial Day thought something was fishy with the Marine uniform worn by 75-year-old Robert Ford, who was strolling along Front Street.
Ford's hat bore some wrinkles, according to the soldier's assessment, and his belt buckle looked too ornate for his rank.
The soldier enlisted the help of a Harrisburg police officer working at the event, who was a Marine, and together, they accused Ford of being a fraud.
"He's not a real Marine!" the officer shouted to the crowd gathered for the PennLive/Patriot-News Artsfest of Greater Harrisburg. "Stolen valor!"
"I was humiliated," said Ford, of Marysville.
The only problem is Ford did serve in the Marines from 1958 to 1964. He earned the rank of lance corporal.
"He's as legit as you can get," said Doug Sterner, a Vietnam veteran and archivist from Pueblo, Colo., who is nationally recognized for detecting military fraud. Sterner confirmed Ford's military service this week through Headquarters Marine Corps.
The incident in Harrisburg, Sterner said, represents a troubling trend across the country of veterans becoming vigilantes.
Veterans are angry, Sterner said, after a federal law about "stolen valor," was struck down in 2012 and a meeker version passed in its place. Under the new law, few cases are being investigated or prosecuted against people who falsely claim military awards or service, Sterner said.
"The veteran community, frustrated and upset, is saying, 'OK. We'll do it ourselves,' " Sterner said. "But what it's leading to is a bunch of hot heads. ... There's a lot of bullying going on in the community now. It's almost like hunting game, going out looking for phonies."
In many cases, veterans or others who spot inconsistences are rewarded for their efforts. In Pennsylvania alone, people outed Jim Moats, of Newville, for his fake Navy Seal story; Brian Khan, of Harrisburg, for pretending to be a Marine; and Mark Kauffman, a veteran who's disabled status became an issue in March.
B.G. "Jug" Burkett, a Dallas-area Vietnam veteran who wrote a book entitled, "Stolen Valor," understands why people get upset at fakes who try to gain respect by claiming they served "shoulder to shoulder with those who gave their lives for America."
Burkett has helped in numerous prosecutions of fake military war heroes. But he said what happened in Harrisburg was a shame.
"I think that cop was out of line, approaching him like that with no evidence," Burkett said. "This is an older guy and maybe they didn't dress the same way 50 years ago."
Sterner agreed.
"I'd rather see a dozen phonies get kudos they don't deserve than besmirch the reputation of one innocent veteran," he said. "Even if I see something totally outlandish, I'm not going to jump. ... You don't just go up and confront people."
Ford asked to file a complaint with the Harrisburg Police Department over the way the officer, Detective John O'Connor, treated him. Capt. Deric Moody promised an investigation.
But as of Wednesday night, no one had contacted Ford or apologized to him. Moody told PennLive he still was trying to confirm Ford's military status.
Anthony Flaynik, the commandant of the local detachment of the Marine Corps League, said his group was doing their own investigation into the police department's actions.
"He gives up his time volunteering for honor guard for veteran funerals every three weeks," Flaynik said of Ford. "He comes out in the rain, shine, hot, cold. We need to do what we can to help him."
The incident
Ford has a tradition on Memorial Day. He dons his dress blue uniform, visits the cemetery, plays "Taps" on his bugle in a wreath-laying ceremony along the Susquehanna River, then attends Artsfest, where he looks for presents for his granddaughter.
But this year, as he was perusing the artware, a uniformed officer approached along with a man in civilian clothes.
The officer asked for Ford's unit and his military occupation specialty.
Ford answered and noted he specialized in machine guns, rockets and flame-throwers.
"I have to investigate for 'stolen valor,' " the officer said, which Ford said he found insulting.
Still, Ford let it pass and recommended the officer attend the wreath-laying ceremony next year. The officer simply walked away.
Ford returned to shopping, but 10 minutes later was again confronted by the officer in front of The Patriot-News booth.
"Where did you go to boot camp?" the officer said.
Ford said he couldn't figure out why the officer was questioning his service. Ford hadn't claimed any war heroics and his uniform bore no combat medals.
"What am I trying to do?" Ford said. "Impersonate a lance corporal who never served in combat?"
Things quickly escalated.
"What is your problem?" Ford asked.
The officer reiterated his demand.
Fed up, Ford told the officer to leave him alone in terms that contained an expletive.
That's when the officer started shouting, Ford said.
"You don't know where you went to boot camp," the officer said, according to Ford. "You aren't a Marine."
Ford said the soldier joined in, shouting: "Stolen Valor! This man is a fake!"
Embarrassed, Ford slinked away, but the men followed. When Ford stopped and turned to face them, Ford said the officer waved his hand over his holstered weapon as if he were ready to draw it on Ford.
"I was getting very nervous," Ford said. "I was afraid to reach for my wallet."
A woman working at The Patriot-News booth, who did not want her name published, confirmed Ford's account that the officer followed Ford and yelled that Ford wasn't a Marine.
The woman said the ordeal lasted about 10 to 15 minutes. She described the officer as being antagonistic and said she believed the officer was trying to get Ford to make a move.
Eventually, Ford did retrieve his wallet to show the officer his U.S. Veterans Affairs card. The officer motioned for the soldier to examine it, Ford said.
The soldier concluded that Ford's VA card was a "fake and that anybody can print those out," Ford said.
That's when Ford asked for the officer's supervisor. Ford walked a block or so to meet Capt. Moody, with the officer and soldier trailing.
Moody talked to Ford and inspected his identification cards by holding them up in the air and tilting them, drawing more attention and embarrassing Ford.
The kerfuffle attracted a television news crew.
"People were gawking at the scene," Ford said. "People must have been thinking this was really bad."
Eventually, Moody, also a Marine, reportedly told Ford "it would be best if he just left, to avoid the camera and all the people that were now watching."
Ford refused. He merged back in with the crowd, but noticed the officer lurking nearby, arms folded with his eyes fixed on Ford. Ford said he was disappointed Moody had not instructed the officer to move on.
Ford had hoped Moody would set things right. Instead, Ford said he felt even worse after the encounter.
"I felt their attitude was like, 'So what.' " Ford said. "I've spent almost my whole life working on veterans' issues."
Ford said he has launched programs to help veterans, is active in his local Marine Corp League and occasionally contributes letters about veterans' issues to the Opinion section of The Patriot-News.
Moody said the officer didn't curse nor put his hands on Ford so the incident didn't rise to the level of an internal affairs investigation. Instead, Moody said he was conducting an informal review of the incident.
"There were inconsistencies in his uniform," Moody said of Ford. "If an apology is due, then an apology is due."
Get evidence first
Experts who advocate for veterans and root out military fraud say public humiliation is not the way to go when one suspects something askew about a military uniform.
Older soldiers can forget the proper order of ribbons, but "that doesn't mean they're a phony," said Sterner, who runs a website called Home for Heroes. "Even real heroes make mistakes."
Sterner has accumulated a database of top military war medals as one method to guard against fraudulent claims.
Even with Sterner's background, he said he has only confronted one person in 15 years over "stolen valor" and that's because he knew the names of all the medal recipients for a particular award being claimed.
Sterner recommended that people concerned with military fraud should simply take down a person's information and "get their ducks in a row."
"I'm not going to confront or accost someone," Sterner said. "I'm going to get my evidence first."
Burkett, who lectures FBI agents and government-fraud investigators, advises on his website how people can check their suspicions by requesting the actual military records.
"I'm just surprised at this cop," Burkett said. "Most of the time, a real vet would not do that. ... People should ask questions first, then go check things out later."
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/06/harrisburg_artsfest_veteran_st.html#incart_m-rpt-2
--
An Army soldier attending Artsfest on Memorial Day thought something was fishy with the Marine uniform worn by 75-year-old Robert Ford, who was strolling along Front Street.
Ford's hat bore some wrinkles, according to the soldier's assessment, and his belt buckle looked too ornate for his rank.
The soldier enlisted the help of a Harrisburg police officer working at the event, who was a Marine, and together, they accused Ford of being a fraud.
"He's not a real Marine!" the officer shouted to the crowd gathered for the PennLive/Patriot-News Artsfest of Greater Harrisburg. "Stolen valor!"
"I was humiliated," said Ford, of Marysville.
The only problem is Ford did serve in the Marines from 1958 to 1964. He earned the rank of lance corporal.
"He's as legit as you can get," said Doug Sterner, a Vietnam veteran and archivist from Pueblo, Colo., who is nationally recognized for detecting military fraud. Sterner confirmed Ford's military service this week through Headquarters Marine Corps.
The incident in Harrisburg, Sterner said, represents a troubling trend across the country of veterans becoming vigilantes.
Veterans are angry, Sterner said, after a federal law about "stolen valor," was struck down in 2012 and a meeker version passed in its place. Under the new law, few cases are being investigated or prosecuted against people who falsely claim military awards or service, Sterner said.
"The veteran community, frustrated and upset, is saying, 'OK. We'll do it ourselves,' " Sterner said. "But what it's leading to is a bunch of hot heads. ... There's a lot of bullying going on in the community now. It's almost like hunting game, going out looking for phonies."
In many cases, veterans or others who spot inconsistences are rewarded for their efforts. In Pennsylvania alone, people outed Jim Moats, of Newville, for his fake Navy Seal story; Brian Khan, of Harrisburg, for pretending to be a Marine; and Mark Kauffman, a veteran who's disabled status became an issue in March.
B.G. "Jug" Burkett, a Dallas-area Vietnam veteran who wrote a book entitled, "Stolen Valor," understands why people get upset at fakes who try to gain respect by claiming they served "shoulder to shoulder with those who gave their lives for America."
Burkett has helped in numerous prosecutions of fake military war heroes. But he said what happened in Harrisburg was a shame.
"I think that cop was out of line, approaching him like that with no evidence," Burkett said. "This is an older guy and maybe they didn't dress the same way 50 years ago."
Sterner agreed.
"I'd rather see a dozen phonies get kudos they don't deserve than besmirch the reputation of one innocent veteran," he said. "Even if I see something totally outlandish, I'm not going to jump. ... You don't just go up and confront people."
Ford asked to file a complaint with the Harrisburg Police Department over the way the officer, Detective John O'Connor, treated him. Capt. Deric Moody promised an investigation.
But as of Wednesday night, no one had contacted Ford or apologized to him. Moody told PennLive he still was trying to confirm Ford's military status.
Anthony Flaynik, the commandant of the local detachment of the Marine Corps League, said his group was doing their own investigation into the police department's actions.
"He gives up his time volunteering for honor guard for veteran funerals every three weeks," Flaynik said of Ford. "He comes out in the rain, shine, hot, cold. We need to do what we can to help him."
The incident
Ford has a tradition on Memorial Day. He dons his dress blue uniform, visits the cemetery, plays "Taps" on his bugle in a wreath-laying ceremony along the Susquehanna River, then attends Artsfest, where he looks for presents for his granddaughter.
But this year, as he was perusing the artware, a uniformed officer approached along with a man in civilian clothes.
The officer asked for Ford's unit and his military occupation specialty.
Ford answered and noted he specialized in machine guns, rockets and flame-throwers.
"I have to investigate for 'stolen valor,' " the officer said, which Ford said he found insulting.
Still, Ford let it pass and recommended the officer attend the wreath-laying ceremony next year. The officer simply walked away.
Ford returned to shopping, but 10 minutes later was again confronted by the officer in front of The Patriot-News booth.
"Where did you go to boot camp?" the officer said.
Ford said he couldn't figure out why the officer was questioning his service. Ford hadn't claimed any war heroics and his uniform bore no combat medals.
"What am I trying to do?" Ford said. "Impersonate a lance corporal who never served in combat?"
Things quickly escalated.
"What is your problem?" Ford asked.
The officer reiterated his demand.
Fed up, Ford told the officer to leave him alone in terms that contained an expletive.
That's when the officer started shouting, Ford said.
"You don't know where you went to boot camp," the officer said, according to Ford. "You aren't a Marine."
Ford said the soldier joined in, shouting: "Stolen Valor! This man is a fake!"
Embarrassed, Ford slinked away, but the men followed. When Ford stopped and turned to face them, Ford said the officer waved his hand over his holstered weapon as if he were ready to draw it on Ford.
"I was getting very nervous," Ford said. "I was afraid to reach for my wallet."
A woman working at The Patriot-News booth, who did not want her name published, confirmed Ford's account that the officer followed Ford and yelled that Ford wasn't a Marine.
The woman said the ordeal lasted about 10 to 15 minutes. She described the officer as being antagonistic and said she believed the officer was trying to get Ford to make a move.
Eventually, Ford did retrieve his wallet to show the officer his U.S. Veterans Affairs card. The officer motioned for the soldier to examine it, Ford said.
The soldier concluded that Ford's VA card was a "fake and that anybody can print those out," Ford said.
That's when Ford asked for the officer's supervisor. Ford walked a block or so to meet Capt. Moody, with the officer and soldier trailing.
Moody talked to Ford and inspected his identification cards by holding them up in the air and tilting them, drawing more attention and embarrassing Ford.
The kerfuffle attracted a television news crew.
"People were gawking at the scene," Ford said. "People must have been thinking this was really bad."
Eventually, Moody, also a Marine, reportedly told Ford "it would be best if he just left, to avoid the camera and all the people that were now watching."
Ford refused. He merged back in with the crowd, but noticed the officer lurking nearby, arms folded with his eyes fixed on Ford. Ford said he was disappointed Moody had not instructed the officer to move on.
Ford had hoped Moody would set things right. Instead, Ford said he felt even worse after the encounter.
"I felt their attitude was like, 'So what.' " Ford said. "I've spent almost my whole life working on veterans' issues."
Ford said he has launched programs to help veterans, is active in his local Marine Corp League and occasionally contributes letters about veterans' issues to the Opinion section of The Patriot-News.
Moody said the officer didn't curse nor put his hands on Ford so the incident didn't rise to the level of an internal affairs investigation. Instead, Moody said he was conducting an informal review of the incident.
"There were inconsistencies in his uniform," Moody said of Ford. "If an apology is due, then an apology is due."
Get evidence first
Experts who advocate for veterans and root out military fraud say public humiliation is not the way to go when one suspects something askew about a military uniform.
Older soldiers can forget the proper order of ribbons, but "that doesn't mean they're a phony," said Sterner, who runs a website called Home for Heroes. "Even real heroes make mistakes."
Sterner has accumulated a database of top military war medals as one method to guard against fraudulent claims.
Even with Sterner's background, he said he has only confronted one person in 15 years over "stolen valor" and that's because he knew the names of all the medal recipients for a particular award being claimed.
Sterner recommended that people concerned with military fraud should simply take down a person's information and "get their ducks in a row."
"I'm not going to confront or accost someone," Sterner said. "I'm going to get my evidence first."
Burkett, who lectures FBI agents and government-fraud investigators, advises on his website how people can check their suspicions by requesting the actual military records.
"I'm just surprised at this cop," Burkett said. "Most of the time, a real vet would not do that. ... People should ask questions first, then go check things out later."
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/06/harrisburg_artsfest_veteran_st.html#incart_m-rpt-2
Posted in these groups: 
Stolen Valor
Stolen Valor
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 147
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I see these you tube videos and look like they are staged. I cannot understand a person going to all the trouble to buy a uniform to get a 10 percent discount at a store. And then why would you film the encounter. I've never ran into one of these civilian wants bees. And I'm not saying it doesn't exist.
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SGT (Join to see)
TSgt Kenneth Ellis, they do exist. Sometimes they do it for more than a 10% discount. Some often get recognition and write books and give speeches. It sucks the way they screw people into believing in them and then find out they've been taken.
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It's no different than any other sort of fraudulent activity. The few doing it make a bad name/image for the rest. It's unfortunate true vets like this guy get this treatment because of them.
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Cpl Christopher Bishop
Unfortunately, there have been different forms of this happening. Its one thing (and usually rather obvious) when a civilian is fronting Veteran Status. Its a whole other thing when legit veterans are embellishing. In all cases however, I find it retarded that fakers aren't looking up any regulations on how to APPEAR correct, or choosing a branch uniform whose height/weight standards would even allow them to fit into them.
Which makes false Marines the worst...most cannot FIT into Blues. But beyond that, if a guy wore a complete uniform, had his ribbons all measured out and in proper seniority order etc, and just plain LOOKED legit, including a fake rank that appears to match their age, most wouldn't even bother them about who they are...point being its the "looking unsat" that gets these people into situations. I think the most flagrant foul so far was that guy who supposedly was actually a Navy Veteran, wearing USMC Blues with a SEAL Trident and those lovely Top Gun lookin' sunglasses. I mean Im always being reminded by Navy people that the Corps is a "Department of the Navy" (to which most Marines respond with "Yeah, the Men's Department."), but I never thought Id actually SEE a Navy guy "wannabe a Marine" asshat like that.
What do these guys say when they know they can't keep up the lie anymore? Oh I'm sorry I got mental health issues? Puh Lease.
Oh you wanted to be a Marine but something about you got stopped at the local MEPS, yet you found out the Navy would take you...and after all of that you turned it all around and sport a SEAL Trident? Yeah well how about wearing that on a NAVY uniform? LOL Or wait...was he one of those Coast Guard-Marine-SEAL-Recon-Sniper-Airborne-Ranger-Green-Beret-Combat-Controller mofos? LOL =)
Which makes false Marines the worst...most cannot FIT into Blues. But beyond that, if a guy wore a complete uniform, had his ribbons all measured out and in proper seniority order etc, and just plain LOOKED legit, including a fake rank that appears to match their age, most wouldn't even bother them about who they are...point being its the "looking unsat" that gets these people into situations. I think the most flagrant foul so far was that guy who supposedly was actually a Navy Veteran, wearing USMC Blues with a SEAL Trident and those lovely Top Gun lookin' sunglasses. I mean Im always being reminded by Navy people that the Corps is a "Department of the Navy" (to which most Marines respond with "Yeah, the Men's Department."), but I never thought Id actually SEE a Navy guy "wannabe a Marine" asshat like that.
What do these guys say when they know they can't keep up the lie anymore? Oh I'm sorry I got mental health issues? Puh Lease.
Oh you wanted to be a Marine but something about you got stopped at the local MEPS, yet you found out the Navy would take you...and after all of that you turned it all around and sport a SEAL Trident? Yeah well how about wearing that on a NAVY uniform? LOL Or wait...was he one of those Coast Guard-Marine-SEAL-Recon-Sniper-Airborne-Ranger-Green-Beret-Combat-Controller mofos? LOL =)
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What if someone is wrong? Then its called a lawsuit.
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Cpl Christopher Bishop
Sounds nice, but I believe to go after someone for anything legal to have it qualify for Slander or Defemation or Libel .... you have to show evidence that the BS spread about you has cost you money, as in lost business profits, etc. Otherwise, an attorney isnt taking your case without somehow You and thus Him being paid.
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SGT (Join to see)
SSG (ret) William Martin, if they are on the street, I wouldn't even talk to them, much less accuse them of Stolen valor. But, if they are on a website which calls them a phony,I look up several resources before I post anything. I once posted a guy and a RP member chewed me out about it.he said he served with him and inno way was he phony. I sent him the 201 file copy. I never heard from him again and he got off RP. The proof is hard to ignore. When I see the same thing on three or four different sites I go to, it's pretty obvious they have been checked out.
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What this officer did is criminal conduct and should be prosecuted as such, the results of which should appear in the officer's official service record: conduct unbecoming.
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It is utter horse manure that this happened. What is going on that we are turning on our own these days? A few minutes of viral video fame? Add to this the bullying going on where some vets are marginalizing other vets service if they don't have a CAR. As veterans, we chose to enlist to be part of something bigger than ourselves, but some seem to be going out looking for the "gotcha" almost as a form of self-validation.
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I absolutely agree with SFC (Join to see) that the abundance of videos on social media is certainly causing people to seek out these cases of stolen valor. Seeking the approval and accolades of fellow service members and that 15 minutes of fame that comes along with it, especially if the mainstream media scoops up the story.
As an afterthought reading these comments. Why are we so quick, as a society, to demand people be fired for their jobs any time they make a mistake?
As an afterthought reading these comments. Why are we so quick, as a society, to demand people be fired for their jobs any time they make a mistake?
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I get really irritated at uniform nitpicking of veterans. I've been out for ten years and I sure as heck don't remember minute details about uniform regs. One common example seems to be the ega's the Marine dress blue collar and what direction they should face. I have no idea which way, I'd have to look it up. Recent marines just don't realize how much of that drilled in knowledge goes away when you don't need it anymore. That cop showed horrible judgment
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