Posted on Dec 16, 2015
Has the Time come for SPC to convert to CPL once Promotable?
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Here is my point of view on the CPL-Spc question. It is my firm opinion that it has come time to promote to Spc but once they become promotable they should be moved to the corporal rank so they can begin the transition to NCO. Obviously if they have passed the board to become promotable they have measured up to military standards for NCO status and are just waiting on time and points so why not move them to CPL and move them to a JR NCO status while waiting. This not only gives them experiance as an NCO but also distinguishes between promotable and non promoatble E-4's.for details.
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SPC
SPC
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 16
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Ohhhh no. Being promoteable doesn't mean you're ready to be promoted. Being able to remember things well doesn't mean you can lead.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
I don't know how it works in your unit, but in my BN your only sent to the board once your leadership and 1SG are solid on you pinning on your stripes. I've seen people do abysmal in the board and still get promotable status because their leadership was positive they were ready.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
I don't think you should be promotable unless you can spell promotable, but I guess every unit has their standards.
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I agree. If I'm recommended for my "leadership potential" to the rank of Sergeant, which attending promotion board is supposed to represent, I should be able to step into that Corporal role of Junior NonCommissioned Officer until I make it to Sergeant.
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most places actually have requirements for being promoted to CPL, one of which is usually being promotable, but that is not the only one. Most of the time you are only promoted to CPL to fill the slot of a SGT because your unit is short on them.
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SPC (Join to see)
SPC Jeffrey Reese honestly almost every CPL ive seen gets treated like a SPC by all the NCO's and Junior enlisted alike... so not to sure what you mean by that. Ive been a squad leader as a SPC and even had a SGT or two under me before. The rank doesn't make much a difference its how you act. Just having those two bars on your chest isn't going to instantly make all the other SPC respect you.
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I disagree. Some units have 1 spc promo others have 5. If everyone became a cpl based on promotable status it would cause more headache than good, too many chiefs. 2 it would create the same problems we are trying to fix (due to da promotable based on time in grade/time in service). 3 you dont need stripes to be a leader. The rank structure is there, spc outranks pfc ect. The only reason people do not enforce this is because the army as a culture has forgotten about this and a lot of spc are not being held responsable for there actions. In some units privates stand at parade rest for spc. At least 3 years ago i saw a unit like this. 4 The skills your looking to learn in the transition do not come with having a couple stripes. A lot comes from being a spc with experience, leading your peers from the front without knowing it. Influencing that pv2 by showing him the right way before that nco sees him doing the wrong. The issue with the spc rank now is everyone calls it the sham shield. If spc start being held accountable for there subordinate team members and themselves it forces them to think as a leader its that team leaders job to groom that spc p to becone that team leader and that spc job to groom his subordinates to perform his duties. 5 i hate that this exists but there are always ncos that push all there work on the next level. (Not going to talk about that right now) but if everyone became a cpl when they were promotable than ncos like that would always be able to point the finger down and we could never clean up the army. Using "but i told cpl joe to do that hes an nco"
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SPC Donald Moore
You have a FIVE very good points that are serious and I wish I could give you more thumbs up for your consideration of the issue. Much appreciated.
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SPC Jeffrey Reese
Sgt do you know how the sham shield got started I do. When I was in service back when we still had to shine boots and before desert storm. A SPC that would try to take charge of a situation would get under cut by NCO's trying to look big and make themselves feel important to junior enlisted. Back then they weren't encouraged to even try to lead until they made promotable and even then it was limited. When I was in service promotions was rarely done on merit it was who was buddy buddy with the squad leader and sad to say allot to do with race. When I went to the promotions board it was because my Platoon Leader questioned my platoon SGT as to why it had been over a year since a white SPC had been sent to the board from our platoon (I happened to over hear him ask the question)the next board I was sent I had been senior SPC for over a year. To get back to the Sham shield that was started many years ago because they were discouraged from taking the responsibility and when they tried they where either dressed down for it or countermanded at every turn so it came to the point they decided why try. I know this because I was one of those that tried and those things happened to me. That is why I am of the opinion of the cpl rank because it is a NCO rank and it does make a difference.
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SPC (Join to see)
You do have some really good points. It doesn't really matter whether or not you have the stripes, you can still be put in a leadership position as a SPC. Part of our incoming counseling in my section is a reminder that some of our fellow E4s are shift leaders or in another supervisory position, and to treat them with the respect and professional courtesy you would any other higher-up. (Most of us get our E4 a few months after we finish AIT). I've spent nearly a year as the supply NCO-still a SPC, though.
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My 1SG started implementing this system.
He's moving every spc(p) to Cpl for the same reason.
Hopefully it can take wind and become something standard Army wide
He's moving every spc(p) to Cpl for the same reason.
Hopefully it can take wind and become something standard Army wide
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SPC Donald Moore
That sounds like one very squared away 1SG. I can't see it becoming a standard though, not because it isn't smart. I just can't see that many people agreeing on it.
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TSgt (Join to see)
It does not reset your time in grade, the grade is your pay grade both are E-4. For example a master sergeant has 3 years TIG. He takes a tour as a first sergeant for 2 years (which like corporal is a lateral promotion in the same grade) he would then have 5 years TIG.
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I say NO, with my main reasons being that
1.) Be careful what you wish for. You say that all SPC(P) need to be promoted to Corporal, which is the rank of a leader. What SOME commands are going to hear is that they only need to send people to the board whenever a leadership needs to be filled.
2.) If you want to be a leader, then be a leader. Make your guys respect and follow your orders and guidance based off who you are as a soldier and leader. Soldiers should know to respect the rank, but take the initiative and learn how to make them respect the person holding the rank. That is the best leadership experience any junior NCO can get.
3.) All E-4s, regardless of if they are a SPC or CPL, should be shamming out of every detail in every possible way. If capture is inevitable, then I would suggest that you help each other out on the detail instead of figuring which SPC has more TIS.
1.) Be careful what you wish for. You say that all SPC(P) need to be promoted to Corporal, which is the rank of a leader. What SOME commands are going to hear is that they only need to send people to the board whenever a leadership needs to be filled.
2.) If you want to be a leader, then be a leader. Make your guys respect and follow your orders and guidance based off who you are as a soldier and leader. Soldiers should know to respect the rank, but take the initiative and learn how to make them respect the person holding the rank. That is the best leadership experience any junior NCO can get.
3.) All E-4s, regardless of if they are a SPC or CPL, should be shamming out of every detail in every possible way. If capture is inevitable, then I would suggest that you help each other out on the detail instead of figuring which SPC has more TIS.
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CPL was the shit show when I was in, a troop that received the lateral promotion was disliked by the NCOs and well liked by the lower enlisted. The CPL "promotion" was used to isolate them, they were no longer lower enlisted and not yet a NCO. CPL is the equivalent on turning 20, not a teenager anymore but still not quite an adult.
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That actually does happen. It actually happened to a soldier in my company on Tuesday. She got promotable status and two weeks later was promoted to CPL.
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SPC Donald Moore
It was probably bad for her in regard to long term advancement because it set her DOR (date of rank) back to zero.
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SPC Ethan Reddick
I could see how that worked. Her DOR is 1 December 2015 now. She is a confident soldier though and I think she will pick up SGT after she attends BLC.
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Spc Mike Craner you're right. Honestly, if an E4 passes the board and is put in a leadership position, I think they should be laterally promoted. But lots of people don't want to do the paperwork.
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