Posted on Aug 28, 2015
How can I attend the promotion board if my CSM has a requirement I can't meet because of a medical issue?
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I have been in my primary zone for awhile now and desperately want to go to the board my COC wants to send me also but my SGT.MAJ has made pre Ranger or ranger school a requirement for promotions to E-5 in his battalion. Due to the medication that I'm on I am ineligible for ranger school and must be off my medication for one year before I would be elligable. This is making my career progression come to a grinding halt. How can I approach this without making the head shed upset or personally tanking any thoughts of promotion in the future?
Promotion Board
SGT
Ranger School
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 42
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For starters, your CSM can't make that a policy. It's invalid, and just short of illegal. In fact, JAG would destroy that if it was actually in a policy letter. The thought is, "Army sets the standard for what is required for promotion, not a unit CSM." So, what you have is a very valid IG complaint that needs to happen. There's some dirty pool going on.
Secondly, I highly encourage you to go to Ranger School. Like the RTB medic stated, there's no requirement you be off a certain drug for a year, you just have to possess an up to date physical. Does your medication require you to be off it a year to pass a Ranger School physical?
Secondly, I highly encourage you to go to Ranger School. Like the RTB medic stated, there's no requirement you be off a certain drug for a year, you just have to possess an up to date physical. Does your medication require you to be off it a year to pass a Ranger School physical?
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1SG (Join to see)
IG all day long. Your CDR should be stepping into the BN CDRs office as well to address your situation or your 1SG talking to the CSM. Promotion is Dept of the Army covered by Army Regulations and no where in that Regulation does it state that BS requirement. You have to be recommended by your COC to go to the promotion board and if they don't, you HAVE TO BE COUNSELED on why you were not selected and if that BS reason is on your counseling run it up to IG.
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SGT (Join to see)
what's another year in a E5 slot holding you back from... Simply Duties. It's better to get promoted late than early, especially in the infantry. Go to Ranger school, get your tab, and then become a sergeant.
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CSM Carlson C.
I understand what you are saying SGT Rivet, however, there should be only one standard, not multiple. This is a situation of creating an unfair, almost illegal environment. Now, I can understand that the CSM wants the best well trained SGT's. Unfortunately, we are standing in a situation where an impromptu standard has been created that doesn't hold water for the rest of the Army.
IG all the way.
"Write checks your shoulder boards can cash"
IG all the way.
"Write checks your shoulder boards can cash"
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I am the Senior Medic at the ARTB, there is no requirement to "be off a drug for a year", have your PCM email me at [login to see] , I will let you know if you are good to go. Its only a 61 day course, just do it and thank your CSM when you graduate.
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SFC (Join to see)
If a Soldier is trying to get promoted,no leader should be trying to hinder that by making additional requirements just because they can. Being ranger qualified is not a prerequisite unless you are trying to compete to be one. I think you should use your open door policy or ask to go to another battalion or brigade that reconmends Soldiers according to the regulation.
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1SG (Join to see)
Someone needs an education on what taking care of Soldiers is about. There can not be any additional requirements for eligibility above what is stated in the Regulation AR 600-8-19. Ridiculous that a CSM would do this and get away with it. Get IG involved if this is actually going on.
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Sounds like it is time for a open door policy request for your CSM.
Ask your 1SG to make the request and ask him to be three with you so there is no he said she said or stoppage in the discussion where the CSM needs to "talk with " or confirm with the company COC.
Be ready to answer why you feel you are ready for the promotion and how you will accomplish the leadership duties as a squad or team leader without the exaperance of the army's premier leadership school.
Ask your 1SG to make the request and ask him to be three with you so there is no he said she said or stoppage in the discussion where the CSM needs to "talk with " or confirm with the company COC.
Be ready to answer why you feel you are ready for the promotion and how you will accomplish the leadership duties as a squad or team leader without the exaperance of the army's premier leadership school.
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SSG (Join to see)
I would also say don't go direct with the 1SG start with your team leader/squad leader use all of your NCOs. Be that soldier that your NCOs want to promote.
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SGM (Join to see)
The Army doesn't recognize locally imposed requirements for advancement. If true this is illegal
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SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA
SGM Steve Wettstein - If the CSM fails this soldier just for going to IG and having his arm twisted, then the SM has a clear case of retaliation and that CSM is really fried.
Wrong is wrong. NOT doing the right thing (going to IG and outting this CSM) is wrong.
Wrong is wrong. NOT doing the right thing (going to IG and outting this CSM) is wrong.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SGM (Join to see) -
Recommending someone for a promotion board is both objective tangible data and subjective opinion
While a SM might meet the objective based requirements to be eligible they must still be recommended to appear and part of that is the subjective observations by the chain or command and NCO support channel.
If in that leaders subjective opinion a young SM in a infantry unit deoes not possess the requisite leadership qualities required for consideration of a promotion board he need not recommend them
While I personally would not mandate Ranger school to be eligible I certainly would mandate that they demonstrate potential if not actual leadership capability some would say that capability is clearly demonstrated after the completion of Ranger school
The only mistake a senior leader might make is to say it out loud you must pass Ranger school he could make this exact same call using his subjective opinion and still not allow the soldier to present before the board
Not even remotely illegal perhaps not great leadership but that's a different issue
Recommending someone for a promotion board is both objective tangible data and subjective opinion
While a SM might meet the objective based requirements to be eligible they must still be recommended to appear and part of that is the subjective observations by the chain or command and NCO support channel.
If in that leaders subjective opinion a young SM in a infantry unit deoes not possess the requisite leadership qualities required for consideration of a promotion board he need not recommend them
While I personally would not mandate Ranger school to be eligible I certainly would mandate that they demonstrate potential if not actual leadership capability some would say that capability is clearly demonstrated after the completion of Ranger school
The only mistake a senior leader might make is to say it out loud you must pass Ranger school he could make this exact same call using his subjective opinion and still not allow the soldier to present before the board
Not even remotely illegal perhaps not great leadership but that's a different issue
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It is sad to hear so many NCOs jump to conclusions after only hearing one side of the story. It also bothers me that so many are pushing the entitlement attitude.
The Army owes us nothing. We are in a draw down and the Army is moving to "Talent Management". Only the best will continue service and certain MOS's require Ranger school to progress.
BLUF:
Talk to your COC and hold your TL, SL, and PL accountable (as honest brokers) to tell you where you stand. Also look at your MOS's career map and show that you have the potential to lead and handle added responsibility.
Speak to your CSM thru the 1SG. There is always an exception to every rule or policy.
Last look inward and ask yourself if you are ready for Sergeant Stripes and ask yourself why you want to get promoted. If it is purely from a selfish stance, read the NCO Creed.
Thank you for your service and know that the life of an NCO is one of service to Soldiers.
RLTW!
The Army owes us nothing. We are in a draw down and the Army is moving to "Talent Management". Only the best will continue service and certain MOS's require Ranger school to progress.
BLUF:
Talk to your COC and hold your TL, SL, and PL accountable (as honest brokers) to tell you where you stand. Also look at your MOS's career map and show that you have the potential to lead and handle added responsibility.
Speak to your CSM thru the 1SG. There is always an exception to every rule or policy.
Last look inward and ask yourself if you are ready for Sergeant Stripes and ask yourself why you want to get promoted. If it is purely from a selfish stance, read the NCO Creed.
Thank you for your service and know that the life of an NCO is one of service to Soldiers.
RLTW!
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SFC Toby Northen
1SG (Join to see) I partially agree but also disagree with you. First, I agree in that we are not owed anything by the Army except three "hots" and a cot. I agree that SPC Dakoda Mckinneypotter should use his NCO support chain and his chain of command to resolve this issue.
But I must disagree with you on some points. 1) No MOS in the Army "requires" Ranger school to progress. While it may be required for Infantry (and support) MOSs to serve IN the 75th Ranger Regt it does not mean it's required to progress. It is definitely a career enhancer and sets one apart from their peers.
2) While I haven't read ALL of the comments yet posted to SPC Dakoda Mckinneypotter 's request for advise, I have read his post. No where in his post does he say he's "owed" the right to go appear before the SGT Promotion Board. Granted, this Soldier has not stated whether or not he's completed the required Structured Self Development course or WLC nor whether he's flagged or BAR'd or not so his question is a bit too vague.
3)BUT having said #2, what the Soldier IS OWED is/are monthly counselings if he is in the Primary Zone.
SPC Dakoda Mckinneypotter MY advice to you is to get familiar with the Army Regulations. WHO is telling you the "must be a Ranger" to go to the board? Did your CSM actually tell you this personally? If not, I"m betting your CSM doesn't even know you were told this (or the person who did tell you this relayed the wrong message). As an aspiring NCO, you MUST be able"...to communicate consistently with your Soldiers". Part of that communication is to be able to advise them IAW Army Regulations. Look at AR 600-8-19 Enlisted Promotions and Reductions. KNOW what is required to be promoted. KNOW what the Time In Service (TIS) and Time In Grade (TIG) requirements are for Secondary Zone (SZ), Primary Zone (PZ), and Command List Integration (CLI). DON'T just go off of what your buddies are telling you or what the infamous "barracks lawyers" tell you.
IF after learning all the facts you're sure you're 100% correct, then go to IG. I promise you, if you DON'T do your research and get all sides of your situation from your leaders, the IG will. IG will get your leaders' side of the story as well as yours. They are required to collect ALL facts.
Good Luck!
But I must disagree with you on some points. 1) No MOS in the Army "requires" Ranger school to progress. While it may be required for Infantry (and support) MOSs to serve IN the 75th Ranger Regt it does not mean it's required to progress. It is definitely a career enhancer and sets one apart from their peers.
2) While I haven't read ALL of the comments yet posted to SPC Dakoda Mckinneypotter 's request for advise, I have read his post. No where in his post does he say he's "owed" the right to go appear before the SGT Promotion Board. Granted, this Soldier has not stated whether or not he's completed the required Structured Self Development course or WLC nor whether he's flagged or BAR'd or not so his question is a bit too vague.
3)BUT having said #2, what the Soldier IS OWED is/are monthly counselings if he is in the Primary Zone.
SPC Dakoda Mckinneypotter MY advice to you is to get familiar with the Army Regulations. WHO is telling you the "must be a Ranger" to go to the board? Did your CSM actually tell you this personally? If not, I"m betting your CSM doesn't even know you were told this (or the person who did tell you this relayed the wrong message). As an aspiring NCO, you MUST be able"...to communicate consistently with your Soldiers". Part of that communication is to be able to advise them IAW Army Regulations. Look at AR 600-8-19 Enlisted Promotions and Reductions. KNOW what is required to be promoted. KNOW what the Time In Service (TIS) and Time In Grade (TIG) requirements are for Secondary Zone (SZ), Primary Zone (PZ), and Command List Integration (CLI). DON'T just go off of what your buddies are telling you or what the infamous "barracks lawyers" tell you.
IF after learning all the facts you're sure you're 100% correct, then go to IG. I promise you, if you DON'T do your research and get all sides of your situation from your leaders, the IG will. IG will get your leaders' side of the story as well as yours. They are required to collect ALL facts.
Good Luck!
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1SG (Join to see)
SFC,
You are missing the point of my post completely.
It is a sad state in the Army when NCOs are quick to give poor advise. When you read the majority of the comments you will find that most NCOs are quick to say "they can't do that go see IG" or a combination of what wrong has been done to the Soldier.
Those words of wisdom are not keeping with what the NCO support chanel is.
All I ask of any NCO is to look at the bigger picture and understand the current state of the enlisted force. We are better than what we are doing and the Army is finally holding us accountable.
As for Ranger school I will not go down the road of whether it's required or not. I will go back to what the SMA and FORSCOM CSM are saying. Talent Management, only the best will remain in service.
The Army is sending a clear message ref. selection rates and Ranger qualification. The Infantry center is also highlighting it as well.
The days of doing the bare minimum are over and more is required and expected of us.
Enjoy your time in Italy.
RLTW!
You are missing the point of my post completely.
It is a sad state in the Army when NCOs are quick to give poor advise. When you read the majority of the comments you will find that most NCOs are quick to say "they can't do that go see IG" or a combination of what wrong has been done to the Soldier.
Those words of wisdom are not keeping with what the NCO support chanel is.
All I ask of any NCO is to look at the bigger picture and understand the current state of the enlisted force. We are better than what we are doing and the Army is finally holding us accountable.
As for Ranger school I will not go down the road of whether it's required or not. I will go back to what the SMA and FORSCOM CSM are saying. Talent Management, only the best will remain in service.
The Army is sending a clear message ref. selection rates and Ranger qualification. The Infantry center is also highlighting it as well.
The days of doing the bare minimum are over and more is required and expected of us.
Enjoy your time in Italy.
RLTW!
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I will echo what SGM Erik Marquez stated, talk to your PSG and 1SG. Inquire about an open door with the BN CSM. Be ready to answer the "why" you think you are ready to be an NCO. Do you want to attend Pre-Ranger once you are medically cleared? If so, then tell him. Your NCO Support Channel is there for a reason. Utilize it.
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We sort of had the same thing when I was at the 101st although you could still attend the board without being Air Assault Qualified (which is what I did), not having your wings just meant you got it a little harder than most. Granted, I came to the unit with the TIS and TIG to attend the board and showed my Chain of Command that I was ready for the added responsibility early on in my arrival to the unit.
Maybe one of the more senior members on RallyPoint such as CSM Michael J. Uhlig or CSM Stuart C. O'Black can shed more light on this but as far as I'm aware, you should still be able to attend if you meet all the requirements set forth by the Department of the Army.
Maybe one of the more senior members on RallyPoint such as CSM Michael J. Uhlig or CSM Stuart C. O'Black can shed more light on this but as far as I'm aware, you should still be able to attend if you meet all the requirements set forth by the Department of the Army.
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SGT Michael Glenn
Agreed, There are no regulations that states Ranger school must be had 1st before going to the E-5 Board. On the other hand it sounds like this particular CSM is a very Unfair and uncaring person so it would probably be wisest to finish your time in that unit and move on to a more realistic chain. I cannot even begin to fathom a CSM that will not listen to a COC on any given issue regarding a SM. Best of luck to you.
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Use your chain of command go to your leaders and ask them. Be polite and respectful. Remember that CSM will be the president of your promotion board so don't do anything to make him not want to promote you. Show your leadership why you should be promoted. Lead soldiers now. Go to Soldier boards if you win them you will have a lot better leg to stand on to say that you are ready to be a NCO. If that fails normal not a good idea however think about trying to PCS and show up at a new place with a fresh start that is not going to be a requirement in every BN.
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These word of mouth policies are dangerous to soldiers. I would request an open door with them stating your intent to go as soon as you can when you are medically cleared. If he doesn't agree with them I would do as some others here have said and take it up with those above him.
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Ranger is an volunteer school, it's not an Army requirement. I understand your leaders want the best qualified NCOs but that doesn't make sense to force a soldier to participate in something not normally requirement to attain promotional status. I say this from experience with ranger leadership in the infantry and special forces command, usually if you score really high on pt and range qualifications and have all correspondence courses fully completed and SSD1 they usually can't refuse you if your leadership recommends you.
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SPC Dakoda Mckinneypotter , I see a lot of great intentions but at the same time a lot of very bad advice for you on here. First, be sure to contact CSM Michael Chavaree to have him clear up the medical concern. I am sure you have done that by now with the timing of this post, so let me leave you with this one thing. When I was younger and even an NCO, I was guilty of pointing the finger quickly at the CSM and saying "off with his head!" (figuratively of course). What I have learned as I have progressed to the rank of SGM is that a LOT of comments become lost in translation. Remember, there are a few people between you and the CSM and comments can be "altered" to where they no longer meet the intent of what was initially said. CSM's do not make policy, only commanders do. There is nothing wrong with you using an open door policy (which technically a CSM is not required to have) to discuss your concern with the CSM. However, the IG is a proper route to clear up policy issues if you cannot resolve it at the lowest level.
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