Posted on Jan 10, 2019
How can I determine if I am a competitive Army OCS Applicant?
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I am currently trying to apply for OCS with the Army. I have a 3.47 GPA in Political Science, National Security Studies from Virginia Tech (I was not in the Corps of Cadets or ROTC). I talked to a recruiter, and he is saying i'm not a competitive applicant. This recruiter's suggestion is that I go enlisted, and then do Green-to-Gold. I took the ASVAB and got a 122 GT, then they really pushed the enlisted route. My GPA could have been higher and I have a Liberal Arts Degree, I get that. Am I really that uncompetitive? What can I do to get competitive? Should I try a different branch? I want to serve as an officer, as sacrilegious as it may sound the branch is secondary to that objective.
Officer Candidate School (OCS) (Army)
Officer Candidate School (OCS) (USMC)
Officer Candidate School (OCS) (Navy)
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 11
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Your recruiter is being a lazy turd and you can quote me. My former Sniper section leader was a recruiter and said the paperwork required for OCS was way more than for a regular enlisted contract and recruiters are all about the numbers. I got in with a 2.8 GPA for my undergrad and a 3.55 for my graduate and that was during the drawdown. It’s all about how the board interview goes, but let’s get the paperwork done first. Bottom line, your recruiter is being lazy, a 3.47 and a 122 are competitive and the Army doesn’t give a damn about your degree, very few of us have degrees that relate directly to our careers until later in our service. Go back and tell the recruiter that you want to do OCS and don’t let him convince you otherwise if that’s what you have your mind set on. If he’s unwilling to work with you, go to a different recruiting station, but don’t let him tell you that you’re not competitive.
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I was a Marine Officer 25 years ago. So my "theory" may be completely off base. But If you were asking me this question 25 years ago...
1) Recruiters are trying to fill enlistment quotas. They don't get any credit for contacts that get commissioned.
2) The recruiter in question is putting his goals in front of the Army's
Locate the nearest ROTC unit and ask to speak to the Officer in Charge. He/she may not be the correct person to get the job done, but certainly knows who is. My guess is that the "recruiter" will get a little "corrective" counseling as an added bonus.
1) Recruiters are trying to fill enlistment quotas. They don't get any credit for contacts that get commissioned.
2) The recruiter in question is putting his goals in front of the Army's
Locate the nearest ROTC unit and ask to speak to the Officer in Charge. He/she may not be the correct person to get the job done, but certainly knows who is. My guess is that the "recruiter" will get a little "corrective" counseling as an added bonus.
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Thomas O'Hear
Got it! Yes, everyone seems to be on the same page regarding the recruiter. Doesn't sound like anything has changed since your time.
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What your recruiter is telling you is absolutely false!!!
I was just accepted a couple days ago. My GPA and GT was lower than yours, and I know other soldiers that were accepted with lower scores than mine. I don't know if recruiters are being pushed to get a certain amount of enlisted in, or if what CPT Sleight said about your recruiter being lazy is true, but you are very competitive.
If you really want to be an Officer I'd suggest you apply. Another route you could take is to enlist as a SPC then apply later on like I did. Doing this you get to experience what it's like to be a junior enlisted soldier first. If that's not something you're interested in, just apply now.
As long as you're in shape, do good on your structured interview, have a good essay and LORs, you should be fine.
I was just accepted a couple days ago. My GPA and GT was lower than yours, and I know other soldiers that were accepted with lower scores than mine. I don't know if recruiters are being pushed to get a certain amount of enlisted in, or if what CPT Sleight said about your recruiter being lazy is true, but you are very competitive.
If you really want to be an Officer I'd suggest you apply. Another route you could take is to enlist as a SPC then apply later on like I did. Doing this you get to experience what it's like to be a junior enlisted soldier first. If that's not something you're interested in, just apply now.
As long as you're in shape, do good on your structured interview, have a good essay and LORs, you should be fine.
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Thomas O'Hear
The enlisted route is an option, mainly for to the experience you mentioned. But, I have a crap ton of student loans and I'm 28. I just feel like the clock is ticking ya know
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LTC (Join to see)
To the best of my knowledge, Recruiters don't get credit for commissions, only enlistments and OCS packets require a lot more effort and paperwork. This recruiter is just being lazy and trying to get an enlistment to meet his quota
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Did he say why you weren't competitive? Sounds like he just doesn't want to do the paperwork. If you're eligible, I feel like he should submit the package. Are you physically fit?
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Thomas O'Hear
He said my GPA was "Ok" and that a 3.50 - 3.70 was competitive. My degree was not a STEM degree (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) which would be preferable. I played Rugby freshman and sophomore year in collage. Im not where I need to be, but it's nothing I cant fix in a month or so.
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SPC (Join to see)
Thomas O'Hear I think your recruiter is full of it because my GPA is lower than yours and I made it into the program. My degree is in political science as well; not a STEM degree. So I think I might try to seek out officer recruiters because your recruiter doesn't seem to either have the knowledge or really be trying to help you. All he needs to do is help you gather your documents and submit them. It's not his place to determine how competitive you are or aren't.
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Unless your Recruiter was an Officer how in the hell would he know if you were competitive or not? He does not sit on Army Officer boards, only officers do that. You need to go and speak with a local National Guard or Army Reserve Officer that was recently commissioned. Don't do Green to Gold, continue with your persuit of Officer off the street. Your GPA is far more than acceptable, IMO. Find another Recruiter that takes their job seriously. Also, don't switch service branches just because you ran into a Recruiter that wanted to enlist you. Give the Army another try.
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Thomas O'Hear
I went and talked with them again today, and I got thrown to a different recruiter. And he is much more inclined to help.
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A little crystal ball advice. If you are planning on making the service a career, do at least one full enlistment. I was selected for promotion, put chose to leave the service prior to pinning the next rank on. I had a once in a lifetime opportunity to set my family up for life. But many good officers in my year group with great service records were passed over twice before they hit 20 years. If you get passed over twice before you hit 20, it really changes your retirement options.
Unless you really really piss of somebody really bad; or totally screw up, repeatedly, having a 4-6 year enlisted period makes a 20 year career about as close to a lock as you can get.
Unless you really really piss of somebody really bad; or totally screw up, repeatedly, having a 4-6 year enlisted period makes a 20 year career about as close to a lock as you can get.
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Andra Constandache
What do you mean "passed over"? As in you don't manage to rank up and get stuck on O3 for twenty years?
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Maj John Bell
Andra Constandache - Officers don't get stuck at the same rank for 20 years. There arew guidelines for each service that establish roughly when they should be considered for promotion.
Each year, each service guesses how many openings there will be for any particular rank. Hypothetical: The Marine Corps decides it will need 100 new LtCols in the coming year. It then determines how many officers, primarily based on seniority, it will consider. Hypothetical 120. The 20 that are considered, but not promoted are considered "passed over."
A year later, those officers will be considered again. If they are not promoted for a second year in a row, their active duty military career is essentially over. It has been a while since I was in, but way back when, officers passed over twice had until September 30, of the year. Then they were discharged. Some are eligible to continue to serve in various capacities in the Marine Corps reserve.
Each year, each service guesses how many openings there will be for any particular rank. Hypothetical: The Marine Corps decides it will need 100 new LtCols in the coming year. It then determines how many officers, primarily based on seniority, it will consider. Hypothetical 120. The 20 that are considered, but not promoted are considered "passed over."
A year later, those officers will be considered again. If they are not promoted for a second year in a row, their active duty military career is essentially over. It has been a while since I was in, but way back when, officers passed over twice had until September 30, of the year. Then they were discharged. Some are eligible to continue to serve in various capacities in the Marine Corps reserve.
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Andra Constandache
Maj John Bell I understand now! Is it bad in the civilian world to be "kicked out" this way?
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Maj John Bell
Andra Constandache - Not really, it is a fact of life for most military officers. There are far more Lieutenants than Captains, more Captains than Majors, etc. etc. Along the way some separate voluntarily, some don't. I cannot speak for the per cent that aren't promoted at any particular rank, but LtCol or Colonel is where you should be at the 20 year mark (retirement is different now than in my day). Something less than 10% of all 2ndLts in the Marine Corps would make it to Full Colonel.
The majority who separate, separate voluntarily, but didn't do 20, served honorably, and were passed over twice before retirement still get honorable discharges, and typically don't have a hard time getting meaningful and financially worthwhile employment. But many find it disappointing that their military career may not carry a lot of weight with some employers. They may find that they are 10-15 years older than their peers in civilian employment. This in my experience is true of many combat arms officers. Not a lot of employment in the civilian world for infantry, artillery, and tanks.
The majority who separate, separate voluntarily, but didn't do 20, served honorably, and were passed over twice before retirement still get honorable discharges, and typically don't have a hard time getting meaningful and financially worthwhile employment. But many find it disappointing that their military career may not carry a lot of weight with some employers. They may find that they are 10-15 years older than their peers in civilian employment. This in my experience is true of many combat arms officers. Not a lot of employment in the civilian world for infantry, artillery, and tanks.
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Sounds like ol' boy is trying to fill a quota. Don't accept less than what you want. The Army won't care about you or your career nearly as much as you do, so don't start that career off by accepting a consolation prize. Good luck.
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Look for another recruiter, or even another branch. I've seen applicants get OCS with almost a whole point lower of a GPA. As long as your PT is good, 270 plus, you present yourself well and have a few leadership responsibilities you can articulate, you'd be a great applicant. Go find a different recruiter as long as you can still commute. If that isn't an option, go back in and tell him you want to put your packet in and roll the dice and you won't accept anything else.
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Thomas O'Hear
I talked with him again today, and he has conceded to help me with the packet. I just don't want to piss anyone off in the office, no need to start a career that.
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OCS is the worst way to become an officer. If you have 2 semesters left you can do ROTC or you can start your masters and do ROTC.
Just my $0.02
Just my $0.02
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Just apply for a graduate program and go ROTC if you're dead set on becoming an officer. That aside, there's nothing wrong with going enlisted first then transitioning over as an officer. If you think you're better than that then maybe you shouldn't be an officer and you should stick with private sector offerings.
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Thomas O'Hear
Your not wrong, and the benefit of going enlisted and selecting a good MOS is that I will receive invaluable "job training". And that is worth a lot.
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Furthermore I don't even think you can do green to gold when you already have a degree? I'm not sure on that one you may be able to do it for an advanced degree but definitely something to consider
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LCDR (Join to see)
Pretty sure green-to-gold is similar to our STA-21. So yeah, OCS is the only option and the recruiter is a turd.
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Thomas O'Hear
He said I could do "green-to-gold" for my masters, but I haven't fact-checked that at all.
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Andra Constandache
Thomas O'Hear you can do that yes, I've been doing a lot of research on it. But it is very competitive as well!
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