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I was on a 24 hour and decided to take a 40 min nap (set my alarm) in place of getting dinner. I had my runner watching over until my break was over. Search at major in for a surgeon are pushing for a field great article 15, wanting to take away my e6 to an e5 for “sleeping on duty” wasn’t even given a chance to explain that I was taking a nap in place of dinner because he went off on me calling me a POS and even mentioned my wife and kids. Got counseled and also told I was being recommended for a FG article 15.
UCMJ
JAG
Article 15
27A: Judge Advocate
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 21
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Get off social media. Contact area defense counsel (or Army equivalent). If you’re sure you can prove you’re innocent of wrongdoing then refuse nonjudicial and request court martial.
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SFC Dan Thomsen
I agree with Jim, talk to legal. I screwed myself by not talking to them and feeling like I would piss off my commander by asking to see them. As i learned along the way, had I requested a court martial it was 95% likely to have been thrown out and the commander would have been told that and likely dropped the charges. Different issue but JAG is your friend.
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What you do on your dinner break, unless illegal, is your business. Talk to JAG. If someone brought some bullshit like that to me as a Commander, I'd tear them a new one. unless they have it writing that you are not allowed to take a break, they have no grounds.
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SGM Erik Marquez
"What you do on your dinner break, unless illegal, is your business"
Sir that depends on unit policy for the duty assignment.
I've seen Staff Duty instructions signed by a commander that state the evening meal may only be consumed in the unit dining facility. That the duty NCO and runner had to go directly from the place of duty to the DFAC and return, and that sleeping on breaks was not allowed. The SM is "On Duty" thus his place of duty is assigned, his tasks, and allowed actions all subject to the commander's orders. The Army says we have to provide sustenance or the option to get it them selfs, if not provided the commander can place specific limitations or available actions on how that meal is to be taken.
Sir that depends on unit policy for the duty assignment.
I've seen Staff Duty instructions signed by a commander that state the evening meal may only be consumed in the unit dining facility. That the duty NCO and runner had to go directly from the place of duty to the DFAC and return, and that sleeping on breaks was not allowed. The SM is "On Duty" thus his place of duty is assigned, his tasks, and allowed actions all subject to the commander's orders. The Army says we have to provide sustenance or the option to get it them selfs, if not provided the commander can place specific limitations or available actions on how that meal is to be taken.
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LTC (Join to see)
SGM Erik Marquez - which is why I said, unless it's in writing. I am assuming that this SM would not knowingly violate policy. Then again, he could be full of crap and thought he could sneak a nap and got caught.
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MSG Moises Maldonado
I pulled many Staff Duty in my 22.5 years Career, Many times I went to the DFAC and had to headback to(still chewing my last spoonful) HQ's B'cause something came up.... Point in Case.. Your Duty don't stop at Dinner Breaks.. Toot that horn in a USAF/Navy Base..LMAO..!(just kidding--Service rivalry)
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Go straight to JAG. Lots of people on here can speculate but in the end no one can improve your situation other than consul if that is in fact the route your commander decides to to take.
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Not proof reading your post before posting it, should of gotten you a company grade. Seriously, you are an E-6, and you don't know well enough to not sleep on duty? Did you not think to ask someone so you could at least have an alibi? Nap in place of dinner, nope, can't say I ever read about that being permissible. The Creed of the Non Commissioned Officer sates this " I will not use my grade or position to attain pleasure, profit, or personal safety. " Sounds like you missed that line. Sleeping on duty by any other name is sleeping on duty. Accept your punishment, see if you can convince your command to get a suspended bust, and accept everything else.
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SGT (Join to see)
It is leaders who reasons like you that makes the ARMY unbearable it is leaders with your mentality that makes talented soldiers get out. Smh anyone who says they have not slept for at least 5 minutes on a 24 hr duty is a LIAR and you were an NCO you of all people would be more understanding.
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SSG Bill McCoy
SFC (Verify To See) - I agree with you SFC. I know what I'm going to say isn't relevant to the original question, but it is somewhat related.
My son pulled BN SDNCO at Ft Lewis and they were forbidden to sleep (or nap). Meanwhile, the BDE SDNCO was allows to sleep. Despite the regulations there that required BN SDNCO to be on a ROTATING basis, because my son was in a "Wounded Warrior" status and being evaluated for medical discharge, he was put on SDNCO two and three times a week. His medical profile stated he was not to walk more than a specified distance - as I recall, 25 yards or so. As SDNCO, he was required to make rounds, on foot of course; climb multiple stories to check barracks' common areas, etc.
Worse, being a SSG, there were no on-post quarters for bachelor NCO's so he lived 20 minutes away. Even worse, his Company REQUIRED him to drive even though he was on meds (narcotics) that plainly stated NOT to operate equipment or vehicles.
Then to top it off, his BDE SGM decided he was to take PT, regardless of his profile. He refused, citing his profile and the SGM ordered him to then, "Walk the track until everyone else is done with PT." He ended up making it 3/4 of the way around a 1/2 mile track then had to be taken, BY AMBULANCE, to Madigan Hospital.
The point is ... rules and regs are all too often at a senior person's, or unit's, own way of applying them. Ultimately, my son's 1SG and CO and a Platoon Leader were relieved of duty because of their treatment oa wounded warriors.
My son pulled BN SDNCO at Ft Lewis and they were forbidden to sleep (or nap). Meanwhile, the BDE SDNCO was allows to sleep. Despite the regulations there that required BN SDNCO to be on a ROTATING basis, because my son was in a "Wounded Warrior" status and being evaluated for medical discharge, he was put on SDNCO two and three times a week. His medical profile stated he was not to walk more than a specified distance - as I recall, 25 yards or so. As SDNCO, he was required to make rounds, on foot of course; climb multiple stories to check barracks' common areas, etc.
Worse, being a SSG, there were no on-post quarters for bachelor NCO's so he lived 20 minutes away. Even worse, his Company REQUIRED him to drive even though he was on meds (narcotics) that plainly stated NOT to operate equipment or vehicles.
Then to top it off, his BDE SGM decided he was to take PT, regardless of his profile. He refused, citing his profile and the SGM ordered him to then, "Walk the track until everyone else is done with PT." He ended up making it 3/4 of the way around a 1/2 mile track then had to be taken, BY AMBULANCE, to Madigan Hospital.
The point is ... rules and regs are all too often at a senior person's, or unit's, own way of applying them. Ultimately, my son's 1SG and CO and a Platoon Leader were relieved of duty because of their treatment oa wounded warriors.
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SPC (Join to see)
Respectfully Chief, you're criticizing someone's grammar while writing "should of" instead of "should've".
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SSG (Join to see) 1ST GET OFF THIS PAGE WITH THIS, SAY NOTHING MORE.
Go see JAG, bring with you a copy of the duty log were you signed out on your dinner break.
Bring the unit policy on the duty post/task you were assigned.
Bring with you the full name, unit, and contact info for your runner.
Be brutally honest with your JAG rep. 1/2 truths, omissions of fact, etc will only hurt you later when it comes out.
Tell the Jag if you brought food with you and consume any said food.
Tell them if you had food delivered.
Go see JAG, bring with you a copy of the duty log were you signed out on your dinner break.
Bring the unit policy on the duty post/task you were assigned.
Bring with you the full name, unit, and contact info for your runner.
Be brutally honest with your JAG rep. 1/2 truths, omissions of fact, etc will only hurt you later when it comes out.
Tell the Jag if you brought food with you and consume any said food.
Tell them if you had food delivered.
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Get a lawyer go to JAG. If it is a FG you will orb8sed to have a JAG assigned to you. But i would gather all your ducks in a row and everybody who was there. That sounds like conduct unbecoming for an officer..i dont recall the article , but a FG officer should not talk to anyone like that
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Had to post this last post...ouch , even ones saying almost the same thing. I read all the post seek Council .
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As a former legal officer, the first thing I would do is grab the directive that governs that watch. You will need that as a foundation for any kind of defense during your Article 15. Speak to legal. Make sure your superiors know your plan, including your plan to appeal if necessary. Make sure you do it in writing. And Colonel Coe is right, get off social media.
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First, shut up. no seriously completely shut up and say no more about this matter to anybody until it is fully resolved.
Get into the JAGs office ASAP, and explain to "your attorney of the hour" exactly what went down, and tell them the full unvarnished truth, warts and all, and I mean to get deep into the ugly truth, and speak not even the slightest hint of a lie to the JAG office you speak with.
Bring with you a list of names and contact information for those people who can provide you with a solid alibi, or who were witnesses for or against you. Expect that the JAG has seen and heard of this sort of thing in the past, and have helped sort out false accusations. But, if you did the deed, ask your JAG to negotiate tremendous remorse and that Article 15 as a merciful alternative.
If you lie to your JAG, expect the nightmare to explode in a way you are not expecting, tell the truth to the JAG, and be found without blame and your commander will get a few lumps over false accusations. At a minimum, your JAG will get to the bottom of things, and if you are truly blameless, your commander will give you a genuine, heartfelt apology.
Only you and your JAG officer can decide on if you take Article 15, and take no advice or input from anybody other than your JAG. Oh yes, shut your mouth right now and do not speak of it further until resolved, and the old man apologizes to you, to your face, or you admit the fault and take your lumps.
Get into the JAGs office ASAP, and explain to "your attorney of the hour" exactly what went down, and tell them the full unvarnished truth, warts and all, and I mean to get deep into the ugly truth, and speak not even the slightest hint of a lie to the JAG office you speak with.
Bring with you a list of names and contact information for those people who can provide you with a solid alibi, or who were witnesses for or against you. Expect that the JAG has seen and heard of this sort of thing in the past, and have helped sort out false accusations. But, if you did the deed, ask your JAG to negotiate tremendous remorse and that Article 15 as a merciful alternative.
If you lie to your JAG, expect the nightmare to explode in a way you are not expecting, tell the truth to the JAG, and be found without blame and your commander will get a few lumps over false accusations. At a minimum, your JAG will get to the bottom of things, and if you are truly blameless, your commander will give you a genuine, heartfelt apology.
Only you and your JAG officer can decide on if you take Article 15, and take no advice or input from anybody other than your JAG. Oh yes, shut your mouth right now and do not speak of it further until resolved, and the old man apologizes to you, to your face, or you admit the fault and take your lumps.
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Three words, Trial Defense Services. That's the defense side of the JAG. Go talk to them, make sure you bring all supporting statements and evidence in your favor. Good luck.
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