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Posted on Dec 6, 2014
How do you feel about an expert armor badge? Its similiar to EIB but with higher skill level due to technical nature
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Responses: 18
I have served in Air Cavalry, mechanized infantry, light infantry, and aviation units. I earned the CIB in OEF as an infantry ETT out in the field with the ANA. I also earned the Aircraft Crewmember Badge at the basic and senior level and basic parachutist badge. From my experience in Afghanistan, every reservist or national guards soldier deployed to Afghanistan received at least six ribbons or medals just for showing up. Don't believe me, lets count:
1. Army Overseas Ribbon
2. Armed Forces Reserve Medal w/ M device
3. Army Good Conduct Medal (if they haven't already earned one)
4. Global War on Terror Service Medal
5. Afghanistan Service Medal
6. NATO (non-article 5) Medal (ISAF)
7. National Defense Service Medal
8. Any end-of-tour medals or valor medals
9. CIB or CAB?
When a PFC with two years in and one deployment ends up looking like CSM with 30 years in, this is a sign that the US military awards system has become too bloated with medals, ribbons, and badges.
Do I think there should be expert badges for other branches? Maybe, as long as the tests to earn them include the same rigorous combat related tasks that the EIB and EFMB require. This would reflect the reality that most every soldier, no matter what MOS, must be prepared to fight, survive, and perform their job in a combat environment. As we have seen in recent history, soldiers from supply to transportation to civil affairs...have found themselves in similar situations as combat arms soldiers. If there is going to be an expert badge for other branches, make it as challenging to get as the existing expert badges.
Serious consideration needs to be made before adding anymore badges or medals.
1. Army Overseas Ribbon
2. Armed Forces Reserve Medal w/ M device
3. Army Good Conduct Medal (if they haven't already earned one)
4. Global War on Terror Service Medal
5. Afghanistan Service Medal
6. NATO (non-article 5) Medal (ISAF)
7. National Defense Service Medal
8. Any end-of-tour medals or valor medals
9. CIB or CAB?
When a PFC with two years in and one deployment ends up looking like CSM with 30 years in, this is a sign that the US military awards system has become too bloated with medals, ribbons, and badges.
Do I think there should be expert badges for other branches? Maybe, as long as the tests to earn them include the same rigorous combat related tasks that the EIB and EFMB require. This would reflect the reality that most every soldier, no matter what MOS, must be prepared to fight, survive, and perform their job in a combat environment. As we have seen in recent history, soldiers from supply to transportation to civil affairs...have found themselves in similar situations as combat arms soldiers. If there is going to be an expert badge for other branches, make it as challenging to get as the existing expert badges.
Serious consideration needs to be made before adding anymore badges or medals.
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SGT (Join to see)
SSG(P) Matthew Bisbee - there needs to be a ‘ANA/ANP Survival Badge’. Partnered missions with those folks were usually butthole-puckeringly miserable.
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Well let's see if I can stir up a whole lotta crap with my response, being that I am one of the senior SMEs from the Armor Branch. 1) Yes their should be an EIA Badge as well as a CTB(Combat Tanker Badge). I have earned my Spurs both through combat operations against the enemy in '03 and during my Spur Ride in '92 while assigned to the 11th ACR in Fulda, Germany. While a great accomplishment to me and my fellow Spur Brothers, it is not an officially recognized award that is placed upon ones ERB. And before anyone from the 11 Series community chimes in about grueling this, that or the other, a timed 26K ruckmarch with 9 test stations along that ruckmarch in and around Fulda, Germany was plenty grueling.
2) Combat operations in 2 of our last 3 major conflicts; DS/DS, OEF & OIF, were MOSTLY mounted fights and many of those awarded CIBs rode into these fights in the back of BFVs, M113s or on the back of trucks. They did not slog on foot for years on end like they had to in WWII, Korea and Vietnam, where the hardships of the Infantryman were so much more than in any other MOS.
3) SSG Timothy Thomas, the black beret, prior to being "given" to the Rangers in 1979, was worn by Armor and Cav units of the US Army, as it has been by tankers in almost all of the world's armies since WWI.
4) Mastering the tank and the different responsibilities inherent with being a member of a tank crew takes a great deal of technical knowledge that mostly comes through experience, just as mastering the technical aspects of being an Infantryman requires, so why is there not a means of recognizing this mastery that is officially recognized and rewarded?
I have nothing but respect and luv for my Infantry brethren, but I do not to this day, after having served a 26-year career as a tanker, understand why there is such vitriol and all out branch hatred towards the creation and awarding of either an EIA badge and a CTB. The powers that be, a long time before most of us were born and definitely before almost all of us served, created the CIB as a means of recognizing the particular hardships inherent in the lives of the combat Infantryman during WWII and rightly so, however since the end of the Vietnam War, unless one is strictly a "light" Infantryman that is no longer the case. 11 series already have the inherent right to be the only branch authorized to wear a colored disc behind their branch insignia as well as their beloved blue cord and I hold no animosity toward them for that. However when it comes to the creation and awarding of an EIA/CTB, I feel that "Big" Army, to this day gets it wrong.
"TREAT 'EM ROUGH!!"
2) Combat operations in 2 of our last 3 major conflicts; DS/DS, OEF & OIF, were MOSTLY mounted fights and many of those awarded CIBs rode into these fights in the back of BFVs, M113s or on the back of trucks. They did not slog on foot for years on end like they had to in WWII, Korea and Vietnam, where the hardships of the Infantryman were so much more than in any other MOS.
3) SSG Timothy Thomas, the black beret, prior to being "given" to the Rangers in 1979, was worn by Armor and Cav units of the US Army, as it has been by tankers in almost all of the world's armies since WWI.
4) Mastering the tank and the different responsibilities inherent with being a member of a tank crew takes a great deal of technical knowledge that mostly comes through experience, just as mastering the technical aspects of being an Infantryman requires, so why is there not a means of recognizing this mastery that is officially recognized and rewarded?
I have nothing but respect and luv for my Infantry brethren, but I do not to this day, after having served a 26-year career as a tanker, understand why there is such vitriol and all out branch hatred towards the creation and awarding of either an EIA badge and a CTB. The powers that be, a long time before most of us were born and definitely before almost all of us served, created the CIB as a means of recognizing the particular hardships inherent in the lives of the combat Infantryman during WWII and rightly so, however since the end of the Vietnam War, unless one is strictly a "light" Infantryman that is no longer the case. 11 series already have the inherent right to be the only branch authorized to wear a colored disc behind their branch insignia as well as their beloved blue cord and I hold no animosity toward them for that. However when it comes to the creation and awarding of an EIA/CTB, I feel that "Big" Army, to this day gets it wrong.
"TREAT 'EM ROUGH!!"
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SGT (Join to see)
I'm not a tanker, but I literally learned 100% more than I did before this post about tankers. Thanks for the education.
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There have been some really good responses to this topic, and most are along the same lines as I think. I am also an 11 series that has earned both the CIB, as well as the EIB, they both have significant meaning to me and symbolize two different events within my career. By making a badge for everyone and everything, it slowly devalues the meaning of the items that are time-honored within specific branches of the combat arms. If you remember back in 2001, the army adopted the black beret that prior to that was a significant piece of the Ranger Regiment's history. This happened again with the creation of another badge replicating the Combat Infantryman Badge, the Combat Action Badge. What started as a good idea as a way to recognize troops that are not 11 series performing the same role in combat, turned into a "Oh boy, I was within 500 meters of an IED strike, I'm getting a badge!" and ran rampantly out of control within some units. Unfortunately I believe that the original post and question is one that should be condemned to the "Good Idea Fairy" file and destroyed ASAP.
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) respectfully, there are some suspect CIBs out there also. “Oh boy, an IED went off 500 meters away, and we sent rounds down range to suppress the threat.” (There was no threat to be suppressed. It was, ‘we hear boom, we shoot at boom for 3 seconds for CIB’).
Meanwhile, I’ve seen too many well deserved CABs get denied for some eye-raising reasons. There are CIB hunters out there, just like as there are CAB hunters. To think it doesn’t happen is a little naive.
I think everyone will admit that the Army awards system, as a whole, is broken. However, it was (still is) my experience that the CIB was viewed by infantry as the one piece of flair in the system that was somehow immune to the f*ckery that has weaseled its way into the award system. And other badges not only cheapened the CIB, but also always seem to be handed out for one bullsh*t reason or another. It made me chuckle then. Makes me chuckle now.
Truth is, there are some garbage time CIBs being chest puffed every day. There are some beyond heroic CABs being humbly worn every day. And every day, there are joes that probably had earned either badge, but weren’t awarded them for whatever reason the Army decided on that particular day. It just happens. But anyone who’s been in combat doesn’t need a badge to prove or validate it.
Meanwhile, I’ve seen too many well deserved CABs get denied for some eye-raising reasons. There are CIB hunters out there, just like as there are CAB hunters. To think it doesn’t happen is a little naive.
I think everyone will admit that the Army awards system, as a whole, is broken. However, it was (still is) my experience that the CIB was viewed by infantry as the one piece of flair in the system that was somehow immune to the f*ckery that has weaseled its way into the award system. And other badges not only cheapened the CIB, but also always seem to be handed out for one bullsh*t reason or another. It made me chuckle then. Makes me chuckle now.
Truth is, there are some garbage time CIBs being chest puffed every day. There are some beyond heroic CABs being humbly worn every day. And every day, there are joes that probably had earned either badge, but weren’t awarded them for whatever reason the Army decided on that particular day. It just happens. But anyone who’s been in combat doesn’t need a badge to prove or validate it.
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They already have the Spur Ride, and get to wear a Stetson, along with those spurs. Surely that is enough. Not that I have a dog in the fight.
I don't have any problem with any MOS having an expert skill badge. If you want to be an expert Paint and Chip Seaman in the Navy, more power to you. My brother started his career in the Air Force. He would play cards until the planes landed, then hook up a tester and swap out whatever board the tester said needed to be swapped. Expert Board Swapper?
I don't have any problem with any MOS having an expert skill badge. If you want to be an expert Paint and Chip Seaman in the Navy, more power to you. My brother started his career in the Air Force. He would play cards until the planes landed, then hook up a tester and swap out whatever board the tester said needed to be swapped. Expert Board Swapper?
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SGM (Join to see)
OK, maybe. They have Master Gunners. They can always join the Cav. I'm not responsible for the solution.
Expert Field Medic has to haul casualties through barbed wire and perform a tracheaotomy with a pocket knife or something like that. EIB has that dreaded 12 mile ruck run in 3 hours. What would you have a tread-head do that is similar, change a track in the field without an M-88?
OK, I'm joking. But as someone else said, at what point does this become everyone gets a badge?
Expert Field Medic has to haul casualties through barbed wire and perform a tracheaotomy with a pocket knife or something like that. EIB has that dreaded 12 mile ruck run in 3 hours. What would you have a tread-head do that is similar, change a track in the field without an M-88?
OK, I'm joking. But as someone else said, at what point does this become everyone gets a badge?
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Please don't take this wrong, Armor does great and wonderful things and I am sure that it takes many skills to ride around in a tank, but does it really merit a badge?
It is like giving a clerk typist an award if they can type over 80 words a minute.
The reason that the Infantry get an EIB is because the testing is both extremely mentally and physically grueling. It is a stress test that also requires you to be able to preform certain skills to exacting standards, while under extreme mental and physical stress. Have I stressed the idea of stress enough? Many try to earn it and only a very few actually do. Any skill badge that was about operating a equipment would be, just decoration for your uniform, or for the promotion points. As for the CIB (combat version) that is something you get for putting your first person ass out there to get shot off. I know that it occasionally happens that an Abrams tank gets damaged and people inside it can get injured, but they have several tonnes of armor protecting their "first person ass" from getting shot off. Hardly worth an award unless they actually do earn a Purple Heart.
Just my two cents from an Infantry perspective.
It is like giving a clerk typist an award if they can type over 80 words a minute.
The reason that the Infantry get an EIB is because the testing is both extremely mentally and physically grueling. It is a stress test that also requires you to be able to preform certain skills to exacting standards, while under extreme mental and physical stress. Have I stressed the idea of stress enough? Many try to earn it and only a very few actually do. Any skill badge that was about operating a equipment would be, just decoration for your uniform, or for the promotion points. As for the CIB (combat version) that is something you get for putting your first person ass out there to get shot off. I know that it occasionally happens that an Abrams tank gets damaged and people inside it can get injured, but they have several tonnes of armor protecting their "first person ass" from getting shot off. Hardly worth an award unless they actually do earn a Purple Heart.
Just my two cents from an Infantry perspective.
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SPC Tracey Bovee
You're obviously not a tanker. If you were you would know that to be a tanker meriting an expert badge requires high technical skill, excellent teamwork, and the ability to maintain composure under pressure.
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Before my usual rant about badge and uniform accoutrement proliferation, I think this is an idea with some merit. Breaking track, gunnery tables, and other aspects of operating an armored vehicle system could well be made into an EIB-like event that would build professional pride.
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LTC (Join to see)
Hmmmm.....That being said, should Mech Infantry be eligible for both the EIB as well as this proposed "Expert Armor Badge"? The merits of the EAB as discussed above are the exact same skills mech Infantrymen utilize....as well as the traditional (light) Infantry skills
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