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What was the situation you encountered, and how did you handle it? I'll start it off.
It wasn't your typical, what you hear these days, type of stolen valor. This man wasn't in uniform, wasn't parading around touting his affiliation. He was an elderly gentleman, who appeared to be homeless. Who claimed to be homeless.
I was out on the town (a casino on Fremont Street in Las Vegas). My buddy and I were headed back to the bar when this elderly gentleman approached us. He asked for some money, and in the spirit of the holidays we told him we'd help him out.
As we were walking with him to the ATM we struck up a conversation, asking him about himself. At some point in the conversation he asked us if we were military. Mind you, we weren't discussing military things or our personal life with him, I had longer than normal hair as I hadn't gotten a haircut in almost three weeks, and my buddy is retired with a beard and long hair. Why he asked if we were in the military, is still beyond me.
We told him our respective situations, what we do, etc. He then told us that he was in the military too. What then started striking us odd, is when we asked him about his service, he wouldn't tell us what rank he was when he left the military, what branch he was in, where he served, what his job was, anything specific at all. He just adamantly repeated that he served, got offended, became agitated, and then left us before we even could make it to the ATM.
We ended up looking for him, found him, and confronted him about the whole thing. He admitted that he lied, and that he in-fact had never served. He apologized for it, said he did it because he thought we would only help if he told us that he served, and promised he wouldn't do it again to others. We gave him some money and went along our way.
This whole event really ate at me for a few reasons. The first, was just seeing someone in need. Everyone could use some help every now and again. It could be someone's dad, brother, uncle... It then bothered me even more, because the thought of those that HAVE served, and made the ultimate sacrifice, and lost their lives. Here is this individual, attempting to get the honor, but never having made ANY sacrifice.
What about you guys? Any situations to share? How did you shake the lingering feeling of anger, disgust, and just generally being upset?
It wasn't your typical, what you hear these days, type of stolen valor. This man wasn't in uniform, wasn't parading around touting his affiliation. He was an elderly gentleman, who appeared to be homeless. Who claimed to be homeless.
I was out on the town (a casino on Fremont Street in Las Vegas). My buddy and I were headed back to the bar when this elderly gentleman approached us. He asked for some money, and in the spirit of the holidays we told him we'd help him out.
As we were walking with him to the ATM we struck up a conversation, asking him about himself. At some point in the conversation he asked us if we were military. Mind you, we weren't discussing military things or our personal life with him, I had longer than normal hair as I hadn't gotten a haircut in almost three weeks, and my buddy is retired with a beard and long hair. Why he asked if we were in the military, is still beyond me.
We told him our respective situations, what we do, etc. He then told us that he was in the military too. What then started striking us odd, is when we asked him about his service, he wouldn't tell us what rank he was when he left the military, what branch he was in, where he served, what his job was, anything specific at all. He just adamantly repeated that he served, got offended, became agitated, and then left us before we even could make it to the ATM.
We ended up looking for him, found him, and confronted him about the whole thing. He admitted that he lied, and that he in-fact had never served. He apologized for it, said he did it because he thought we would only help if he told us that he served, and promised he wouldn't do it again to others. We gave him some money and went along our way.
This whole event really ate at me for a few reasons. The first, was just seeing someone in need. Everyone could use some help every now and again. It could be someone's dad, brother, uncle... It then bothered me even more, because the thought of those that HAVE served, and made the ultimate sacrifice, and lost their lives. Here is this individual, attempting to get the honor, but never having made ANY sacrifice.
What about you guys? Any situations to share? How did you shake the lingering feeling of anger, disgust, and just generally being upset?
Honor
Service
Stolen Valor
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 28
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MSgt (Join to see)
One time while walking through Chicago O'Hare I saw a Sailor in uniform wearing quite a few ribbons that he couldn't possibly rate. I politely asked him how long he had been in the Navy and he said "I just graduated Boot Camp Sir..." I then asked him "In that case, how do you rate an Overseas Service Ribbon and Sea Service Deployment Ribbon (and whatever else he was wearing that he didn't rate)?"
I got a deer in headlights look from him. I then showed him my ID card and identified myself as Petty Officer Miller and suggested that he remove the unauthorized ribbons before somebody a lot less nicer than me saw him.
One time while walking through Chicago O'Hare I saw a Sailor in uniform wearing quite a few ribbons that he couldn't possibly rate. I politely asked him how long he had been in the Navy and he said "I just graduated Boot Camp Sir..." I then asked him "In that case, how do you rate an Overseas Service Ribbon and Sea Service Deployment Ribbon (and whatever else he was wearing that he didn't rate)?"
I got a deer in headlights look from him. I then showed him my ID card and identified myself as Petty Officer Miller and suggested that he remove the unauthorized ribbons before somebody a lot less nicer than me saw him.
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1SG (Join to see)
I like it.
Young Soldiers/ Sailors/Marines/etc make mistakes like this somewhat frequently. He probably thought he was pretty cool walking around O'Hare looking like he wasn't a noob. Of course, How many E-nothings walk around O'Hare in uniform that aren't noobs?
Better to fix it with an OTS correction and set them straight then make a spectacle.
You both represented the Navy in a very public forum; you represented it very well that day, PO1 John Miller.
Where you are matters a lot.
Young Soldiers/ Sailors/Marines/etc make mistakes like this somewhat frequently. He probably thought he was pretty cool walking around O'Hare looking like he wasn't a noob. Of course, How many E-nothings walk around O'Hare in uniform that aren't noobs?
Better to fix it with an OTS correction and set them straight then make a spectacle.
You both represented the Navy in a very public forum; you represented it very well that day, PO1 John Miller.
Where you are matters a lot.
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PO1 John Miller
1SG (Join to see)
Exactly. In cases like this it's generally some kid who is legitimately in the military but just wants to "look cool."
Hell, I'll admit to buying a bunch of ribbons I didn't rate when I was a dumb E3 and going as far as to assemble them into a ribbon rack. But I had a "moment of clarity" and decided NOT to put them on my uniform.
Exactly. In cases like this it's generally some kid who is legitimately in the military but just wants to "look cool."
Hell, I'll admit to buying a bunch of ribbons I didn't rate when I was a dumb E3 and going as far as to assemble them into a ribbon rack. But I had a "moment of clarity" and decided NOT to put them on my uniform.
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What I saw: Heavy set, older man wearing Marine Corps dress blues. He had only Lance Corporal stripes and the National Defense Service Medal. He looked too old to be a new Lance Corporal but didn't seem like the kind of guy who stayed in for an entire enlistment either. He was wearing the uniform outside of a Wal Mart standing next to the Bell Ringers last month. Now aside from it not seeming right that he was an older man who only made Lance and only had a NDSM I have always been under the impression that Marines aren't allowed to wear their uniforms anywhere and everywhere off post, especially for something like that.
How I handled it: When he said hi to me as I was leaving I said hi back and continued on with my day. Regardless of whether or not it annoys me it isn't my place to do what many of the knuckle heads in SV videos do by going up to people and yelling and cussing them out and threatening them. All that does is makes actual service members seem like assholes to everyone else. That and there has been cases of falsely accusing actual vets as SV. Regs change, people get older and don't always remember how every single little item is placed on a uniform. In fact, at my grandpa's funeral a friend of his family wore his Air Force blues for his funeral. He was missing his U.S. insignia on his collar. He knew he was supposed to have them but wasn't going to worry about something so minor. He was a legitimate SSgt who worked in Fire Protection in the AF and separated honorably yet I have no doubt that their are people out there who would see that and throw a hissy fit at him for it.
Just leave them alone. If they are really faking service to gain benefits then let law enforcement handle it and they will see their day in court.
How I handled it: When he said hi to me as I was leaving I said hi back and continued on with my day. Regardless of whether or not it annoys me it isn't my place to do what many of the knuckle heads in SV videos do by going up to people and yelling and cussing them out and threatening them. All that does is makes actual service members seem like assholes to everyone else. That and there has been cases of falsely accusing actual vets as SV. Regs change, people get older and don't always remember how every single little item is placed on a uniform. In fact, at my grandpa's funeral a friend of his family wore his Air Force blues for his funeral. He was missing his U.S. insignia on his collar. He knew he was supposed to have them but wasn't going to worry about something so minor. He was a legitimate SSgt who worked in Fire Protection in the AF and separated honorably yet I have no doubt that their are people out there who would see that and throw a hissy fit at him for it.
Just leave them alone. If they are really faking service to gain benefits then let law enforcement handle it and they will see their day in court.
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PO1 John Miller
SrA Matthew Knight
Eh, as long as he was wearing the uniform properly, etc., maybe he really WAS a Marine. It's not uncommon to not advance past LCPL in 4 years. If he went to Mast he wouldn't have gotten a GCM, and if he never deployed he wouldn't rate any other medals.
Eh, as long as he was wearing the uniform properly, etc., maybe he really WAS a Marine. It's not uncommon to not advance past LCPL in 4 years. If he went to Mast he wouldn't have gotten a GCM, and if he never deployed he wouldn't rate any other medals.
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SrA Matthew Knight
PO1 John Miller - That's the point though, you never know unless you know the person yourself or dig into their history. I couldn't tell you if the guy was a Marine or not. He didn't seem like it to me but the little bit of doubt I had is what kept me from pushing the issue. The problem is with all of the popularity of Stolen Valor people get this Vigilante mind set that they are doing good by walking up to someone and yelling and in some cases getting violent because they think they are being the hero. Unfortunately there has been cases where people have done this and the person turned out to be an actual veteran.
All I am trying to get at is we shouldn't feel like it's our responsibility to light someone up when there is the possibility that they have earned what they are wearing. Regulations change and when you've been out for a while you forget some things. Yes there are people who do steal valor but as I said, let law enforcement deal with it. It's not worth getting yourself in trouble.
All I am trying to get at is we shouldn't feel like it's our responsibility to light someone up when there is the possibility that they have earned what they are wearing. Regulations change and when you've been out for a while you forget some things. Yes there are people who do steal valor but as I said, let law enforcement deal with it. It's not worth getting yourself in trouble.
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1SG (Join to see)
SrA Matthew Knight - I have said something like this every time RP Staff posts one of those Stolen Valor videos - and they love posting them because they always stir the pot. I would just as soon see the phenomenon of video taping these confrontations where everyone behaves badly go away forever.
The world will be better for it, trust me.
The world will be better for it, trust me.
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SrA Matthew Knight
1SG (Join to see) - Same here. Don't get me wrong, I hate the fact that people do it and follow Stolen Valor myself and read their stories and findings on people but that's exactly it, it should be left to the legal system to deal with which SV generally does. The problem is too many people want their 5 minutes of fame by thinking they are being a hero confronting people. All to often it starts to turn ugly with verbal assaults and in some cases it's even gone physically violent. I'm sorry but no amount of stolen valor is worth getting into a fight over. Leave it to law enforcement plain and simple.
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First, I only read the question.
I wouldn't go out of my way to record these stolen valor guys and blast them on facebook, youtube, or social media. We're professionals, or were supposed to be. Should I encounter anyone who I believe is wearing our uniforms and they aren't in the service, I would be polite about it. I tire of seeing what veterans are doing to these people, Like a bunch of damn holier than thou attitude pansy's looking to be internet famous.
We all signed the dotted line to protect the civilian population, not berate them because they decided to wear our uniform and get attention for doing it. I don't know about anyone else but I don't need to get recognition for anything I have done by anyone and personally don't feel offended when I see someone wearing my uniform who hasn't served. Would you get angry at a child for wearing it? (BUT SGT PEASLEE A CHILD IS DIFFERENT!) They are still wearing a replica / look alike to it. What we do for one we must do for all.
TL:DR No, I wouldn't go bananas on someone, Yes I may ask a few questions and speak to them like an adult.
I wouldn't go out of my way to record these stolen valor guys and blast them on facebook, youtube, or social media. We're professionals, or were supposed to be. Should I encounter anyone who I believe is wearing our uniforms and they aren't in the service, I would be polite about it. I tire of seeing what veterans are doing to these people, Like a bunch of damn holier than thou attitude pansy's looking to be internet famous.
We all signed the dotted line to protect the civilian population, not berate them because they decided to wear our uniform and get attention for doing it. I don't know about anyone else but I don't need to get recognition for anything I have done by anyone and personally don't feel offended when I see someone wearing my uniform who hasn't served. Would you get angry at a child for wearing it? (BUT SGT PEASLEE A CHILD IS DIFFERENT!) They are still wearing a replica / look alike to it. What we do for one we must do for all.
TL:DR No, I wouldn't go bananas on someone, Yes I may ask a few questions and speak to them like an adult.
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I just shake my head and move on, some are not worth responding to. Like the cook that claimed he was sent on "special missions" in Vietnam because the Military recognized him as a stone cold killer.
Dude had issues, not worth getting into a confrontation. No shortage of STUPID out there.
Dude had issues, not worth getting into a confrontation. No shortage of STUPID out there.
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Don't everyone take this post wrong...please read the whole post. I care about stolen valor but stolen valor here to me is secondary in this case. I am tired of Americans living on the street and overcome with hunger. We fight for a nation that is the richest in the world yet we have homeless people that are hungry and cold. To me the hunger need would be more prevalent. If the individual was truly in need, I wouldn't give them any money...I would take them somewhere to eat and feed them and find a place with some clothes if they needed it. That is a true test if someone is hungry and in need or if they just want the money for drugs or alcohol. Feed the physical need and then feed the knowledge and awareness need. If they are hungry, they won't listen to a thing you say.
Now, the stolen valor part. I would discuss with them why they felt the need to use that excuse to get money. Explain to them that countless American heroes died and you, by claiming to be a veteran, are diminishing tier sacrifices. Let them know there are other ways to get help and that to claim to be a veteran could be dangerous and in some cases against the law.
Other cases of stolen valor, like folks in uniform, airports, other places that have a life and are physically taken care of and are just trying to get sympathy or a discount...I probably would approach it with a lot of thrust and very little vector. Same message as above about diminishing others service but in a different delivery. If they don't get it, then I just walk off. They are the ones that have to live with it...not me. Definitely not worth a shouting match or physical altercation.
Now, the stolen valor part. I would discuss with them why they felt the need to use that excuse to get money. Explain to them that countless American heroes died and you, by claiming to be a veteran, are diminishing tier sacrifices. Let them know there are other ways to get help and that to claim to be a veteran could be dangerous and in some cases against the law.
Other cases of stolen valor, like folks in uniform, airports, other places that have a life and are physically taken care of and are just trying to get sympathy or a discount...I probably would approach it with a lot of thrust and very little vector. Same message as above about diminishing others service but in a different delivery. If they don't get it, then I just walk off. They are the ones that have to live with it...not me. Definitely not worth a shouting match or physical altercation.
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Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth
CPL Russell Silber - Explain 4Q? Not familiar with that term or I have just forgotten it...more likely the case. Thanks
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CPL Russell Silber
Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth - I just laugh ? You know that they are fake and possibility of illness. 4Q is what it sounds like say 4 then Q what due you get?
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Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth
CPL Russell Silber - 5 x 5 got it...I guess senior moments are becoming more and more common. Thanks for the clarification. Cheers
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MSgt (Join to see), it is not unusual for those that must live by their wits to try to manipulate people into helping them survive. Lying was the least of his problems.
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I was with Civil Air Patrol at an air show and I saw who appeared to be an army colonel in BDU which was the uniform at the time I chatted with him he seemed to be a nice person however he was a little sketchy and some of the details especially when he mentioned he did not have an AKO email address; at that time all Army people were supposed to have one. He was a member of the CAP. A couple weeks later somebody else shared with me that they were suspicious of him so I looked him up on military.com at the time they had a list of people who were actually in the service. He served years ago as an Air Force E4. I reported that. From what I heard he was dismissed from CAP.
On another occasion a high-ranking Coast Guard Auxiliary member War of the SEAL insignia I took a class from him he have kind of an abrasive personality quite a few years later I found out through the media that he was caught as imposter. He seven as an Operational Specialist (then known as radarman) aboard ship in the Navy during Vietnam. He resigned fom CG Auxiliary after being caught.
On another occasion a high-ranking Coast Guard Auxiliary member War of the SEAL insignia I took a class from him he have kind of an abrasive personality quite a few years later I found out through the media that he was caught as imposter. He seven as an Operational Specialist (then known as radarman) aboard ship in the Navy during Vietnam. He resigned fom CG Auxiliary after being caught.
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PO1 John Miller
LTC (Join to see)
Your post cuts off at "SEAL insignia..." I'm really curious to read the rest of it!
Edit: Your post seems to have expanded now that I have responded to it. Weird... Maybe an error in the RP code?
Your post cuts off at "SEAL insignia..." I'm really curious to read the rest of it!
Edit: Your post seems to have expanded now that I have responded to it. Weird... Maybe an error in the RP code?
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If you want to steal valor or look cool, come and see me down in VA Palo Alto. I will be happy to have one of the nurses give you tour of the building that houses the troops who TBI injuries, the likes of which few civilians will ever see, then tell me how cool you think you are. I am humbled everyday I see one of them walking around in therapy. It is a juxtapose position, You feel proud that you work for an institution that can heal these horrendous injuries, and at the same time you think There before the grace of God go I.
It is these men and women who have lost limbs, parts of their mind that they can never get back, and relearning everything in life, except the honor of serving that these people steal from.
It is these men and women who have lost limbs, parts of their mind that they can never get back, and relearning everything in life, except the honor of serving that these people steal from.
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I haven't run across any potential case of "stolen valor" I can say with enough confidence to warrant questioning that person. The likelihood of stolen valor would have to be so high, and my confidence that the other person was lying so great, that I would consider questioning them.
Do I have a responsibility to veterans and service members to at least make the inquiry? I don't know. I just know (and many others, myself included have said it before) I would rather let a 1000 fakers go, than falsely accuse just one legitimate service member or veteran-those who present themselves honestly and not exaggerating themselves or their military accomplishments.
Since I haven't had the pleasure yet of being confident enough in my knowledge of All Things Military to justify questioning a potential faker, I don't know for certain what I might say or ask. I think if it happens, I will try to be calm and professional about it. Even if they are lying fraudsters, there's no sense in making myself look worse than them.
Do I have a responsibility to veterans and service members to at least make the inquiry? I don't know. I just know (and many others, myself included have said it before) I would rather let a 1000 fakers go, than falsely accuse just one legitimate service member or veteran-those who present themselves honestly and not exaggerating themselves or their military accomplishments.
Since I haven't had the pleasure yet of being confident enough in my knowledge of All Things Military to justify questioning a potential faker, I don't know for certain what I might say or ask. I think if it happens, I will try to be calm and professional about it. Even if they are lying fraudsters, there's no sense in making myself look worse than them.
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Falling Down (bum begging for money)
This homeless guy just wont stop asking for money.
There are a few elements here that stick out to me.
To address the direct question, first you need to understand that the homeless individual you encountered likely has several issues, ones that might not be readily apparent. When he was building rapport with you by trying to find "common" ground, he was attempting to get a bigger hand out. No more, no less. Because of his lack of preparedness, potential chemical/mental issues, probable fatigue and health issues, he was not ready to answer basic questions. This should have sent up a flag that perhaps taking him to your ATM while you make the withdrawal was not such a good idea.
Panhandlers are kind of like used car salesmen. They size you up before approaching to figure out which approach will work and which marks are likelier to produce more money. Once engaged, they will persist - trying different approaches until something works. Because you (like many) are kind-hearted and it was the holiday season, you decided to help him out. Chances are good that he was more agitated about leaving his "spot" (homeless folks are often very territorial, and Fremont Street is pretty prime territory) than he was about being confronted. He decided to go back, never expecting to see you again. His survival instincts were kicking in too. There are a lot of predators in Las Vegas.
You actually handled it pretty well, but you were lucky he wasn't more desperate or inebriated. When in public, its usually the best call to not make a scene. If you had it to do over again, I'd suggest going to the ATM first, returning to where the man is at, wishing him a Merry Christmas, and breaking contact.
I've added a link to a scene from "Falling Down" one of my all time favorite movies. The bag he doesn't give the panhandler is full of automatic weapons. If you haven't seen it, I strongly recommend it. The "Whammy Burger" scene is also classic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwP2vV6Wm1Y
To address the direct question, first you need to understand that the homeless individual you encountered likely has several issues, ones that might not be readily apparent. When he was building rapport with you by trying to find "common" ground, he was attempting to get a bigger hand out. No more, no less. Because of his lack of preparedness, potential chemical/mental issues, probable fatigue and health issues, he was not ready to answer basic questions. This should have sent up a flag that perhaps taking him to your ATM while you make the withdrawal was not such a good idea.
Panhandlers are kind of like used car salesmen. They size you up before approaching to figure out which approach will work and which marks are likelier to produce more money. Once engaged, they will persist - trying different approaches until something works. Because you (like many) are kind-hearted and it was the holiday season, you decided to help him out. Chances are good that he was more agitated about leaving his "spot" (homeless folks are often very territorial, and Fremont Street is pretty prime territory) than he was about being confronted. He decided to go back, never expecting to see you again. His survival instincts were kicking in too. There are a lot of predators in Las Vegas.
You actually handled it pretty well, but you were lucky he wasn't more desperate or inebriated. When in public, its usually the best call to not make a scene. If you had it to do over again, I'd suggest going to the ATM first, returning to where the man is at, wishing him a Merry Christmas, and breaking contact.
I've added a link to a scene from "Falling Down" one of my all time favorite movies. The bag he doesn't give the panhandler is full of automatic weapons. If you haven't seen it, I strongly recommend it. The "Whammy Burger" scene is also classic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwP2vV6Wm1Y
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SPC David S.
falling down (1993) - what's wrong with this street
Falling Down is a 1993 crime-drama film directed by Joel Schumacher. The film stars Michael Douglas in the lead role of William Foster (credited as "D-Fens")...
What's wrong with this street? -
Back blast area clear? - clear!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua803eGwPko
Back blast area clear? - clear!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua803eGwPko
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