Posted on Feb 19, 2015
How has the Navy changed in the last 20 years?
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My time on active duty is now over 20 years ago. I am interested to hear from veterans and active sailors how things have changed in that time. The day to day life, deployments, the overall mission, etc.
For instance, in my day there was no internet to speak of. Is that a daily part of shipboard life? Satellite phones if they existed were strictly for SEALS or somebody like that, cell phones came in a giant bag or were about the size of a claymore mine. Do you get to use your cell phones when you get signal? Did they every finally put a McDonald's on an Aircraft carrier? Our mission included playing a giant chess game with the Soviet Navy...what is the current mission like?
Inquiring minds want to know.
There's 72,000 + Navy on this site and we rarely hear from them. I'd like to see the squids get more engaged.
For instance, in my day there was no internet to speak of. Is that a daily part of shipboard life? Satellite phones if they existed were strictly for SEALS or somebody like that, cell phones came in a giant bag or were about the size of a claymore mine. Do you get to use your cell phones when you get signal? Did they every finally put a McDonald's on an Aircraft carrier? Our mission included playing a giant chess game with the Soviet Navy...what is the current mission like?
Inquiring minds want to know.
There's 72,000 + Navy on this site and we rarely hear from them. I'd like to see the squids get more engaged.
Military Life
Mission
Navy
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 60
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Not much respect for rank structure. I go over twenty next month. If I were to talk to my YN1 when I was an E3/4/5 like these guys talk to me it would have been over with. I get questioned like we are on a leveled playing field and it's accepted when it shouldn't be. I sometimes spend a good portion of my time with nonsense paperwork that these incidents accompany. It's madness. I will not miss this. I wish I wasn't questioned by juniors when I tell them to do something and I wish they didn't question me - like where were you? I can imagine the look on my face when I get this because "in my day" that's not the way it worked. I am sad that I don't get the same respect that I show to my seniors. I have earned it but not to these guys who are so entitled and it shouldn't be this way. I have tried to correct this but this culture we have now, you have to baby them and it's ridiculous. It could also just be my time to go.
When I came in up until about 10 years ago we (mostly) all took our PRTs on the same day and it turned into a BBQ. There was a keg at the finish line and the smokers where all taking their last puffs before the run while in formation with everyone else - good times. Now with all the DUIs and we are responsible for everyone - the whole keg thing wouldn't work.
A lot has changed for the better, SAPR is serious business now. It wasn't always like that and that's good. I hope to see a fleet where men/women do not go through what I went through, because there is no place for that. We should all be a team, no individual men and women.
When I came in up until about 10 years ago we (mostly) all took our PRTs on the same day and it turned into a BBQ. There was a keg at the finish line and the smokers where all taking their last puffs before the run while in formation with everyone else - good times. Now with all the DUIs and we are responsible for everyone - the whole keg thing wouldn't work.
A lot has changed for the better, SAPR is serious business now. It wasn't always like that and that's good. I hope to see a fleet where men/women do not go through what I went through, because there is no place for that. We should all be a team, no individual men and women.
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I heard that the navy has taken away shell back and blue nose because it was to ruff. That (to me) made you feel you were apart of a family. I loved being on the USS America CV66 one proud mag rat. Well I guessing by a lot of comments that the navy has gotten soft instead of salty
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In June 1992 I found out that I had not made RM1 Again for the 7th time. I saw the hand writting on the wall. back then it was bad when ever I told some one to go clean the head and would get why I would tell them well let me see I am a RM2(SW) and you are a SA-Seaman Apprentice and I told your butt to do this and if we fail inspection then you will be here all night cleaning the head. well he did it right for the CO's inspection.(I was on sea duty USS ROANOKE AOR-7) by the time I went on shore duty in dec 1991 I saw the hand writting on the wall next month it will be 15 years since I retired on April 30th 1993. but do not get me wrong I loved the navy I was in 1978-1993.
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I have a little experience to speak to this topic. I joined the Navy as a non-designated Fireman Recruit (E1) in 1981 and after nine different ships, twelve deployments including boots on the ground in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and a combat tour in Afghanistan, I retired a Master Chief Aircraft Maintenanceman (E-9) in 2011.
For those unfamiliar with the Navy, when you join you are guaranteed a school or training in a specific rating (MOS in other branches) or you were “assigned” a general on-the-job training field, Fireman, Seaman, and Airman. Fireman field represents the ships engine mechanics and everything associated with that general area. Seaman field is what the lay world think of when they think Sailor. They are the Boatswain Mates, Signalmen, Quartermasters and the like. They are jacks of all trades on the ship, they paint, drive the boats, you name it. Airman, as you might figure works on the aircraft, helicopter or fixed wing. That is an area that has changed a few times in the last twenty years, from what I just described to everyone is sent to a school out of basic training. There are pros and cons to this change. Someone is going to do the crap work and that used to fall to the non-rates because if you had training you were needed in your division. But crap work did not go away.
In the early 80’s, most of my supervisors were Viet Nam Vets and could not understand the worthless POS’s joining the Navy today, because in there day life in the Navy was different…..
The 80’s was a particularly good time to be in the service. The economy sucked and Ronald Reagan was in the White House and the purses where opening for the first time since forever. The 600 ship Navy meant lots of money to buy things without many people checking very close to what things cost. Then the $700.00 hammers and toilet seats made the news. Now, every pen and pencil is accounted for. So that has changed.
The hangover of the 80’s spending brought peace time military cuts for the 90’s and Sailors were being paid to leave the Navy. Until, the Gulf War I. I was a Recruit Company Commander (Drill Instructor to the rest of you) during this time period. The size of the company went from 70’ish to 90+ in what seemed to be overnight. If you had a pulse, you graduated from basic. Now, it’s a bit more challenging with what is called “battle stations”, with real Navy world scenarios. So that has changed. Perfect? No. But better.
Post-Gulf War and pre 9-11 saw many changes some good, most not so good. Work smarter not harder and Zero tolerance were hot phrases. In my opinion, these philosophies has had the most impact on changing the face of the Navy. It became much easier for Sailors to apply for and get accepted to college and commissioning programs that resulted in a huge vacuum of talented worker Sailors. Some who came back as Officers with not great attitudes towards then minions who chose not to go over to the dark side. Zero tolerance prematurely ended the careers of thousands of quality, knowledgeable Navy leaders in both the Officer and enlisted ranks. Head hunting became the way to downsize otherwise great Sailors. That went away for the better part of the early 2000’s, but has returned under other names of rightsizing the fleet. Sad regardless what you call it.
Mid 2000’s brought in the social the engineering phase. Can’t we all get along? E-1’s have an equal voice in matters of “quality of life” and other issues, like evaluating their leaders. Sounds good on paper and in DC but in practice not so much. Sacred domains such as the Chief Petty Officers Mess on ships have all but gone away, because, who are they to eat better and have nicer accommodations that the regular squid? Besides, everyone knows that devil worshiping had to be going on behind those closed doors. And to promote to E8 you would now need a two year degree and to E9 a four year degree, or so was the threat (I took two college classes, still made E9, F’em). What may work for the Air Force does NOT work in the Navy.
In an effort to fill US Army positions as trainers and mentors in combat areas, the Navy who needed to cut 25,000 Sailors came up with a great idea to “augment” the Army with Sailors in roles of Embedded Training Teams in Iraq and Afghanistan. I for example spent 3 months in the Kansas snow learning everything there is to know about being a Soldier…. Uh, well as far as you know…. I did learn how to put plastic rap on a sucking chest wound and how to stick an IV in some unfortunate souls arm. Then sent to Helmand Provence, Afghanistan to train an Afghan Army Command Sargent Major how to be a Command Sargent Major. Yeah, not so much. He had a “night job” that prevented him from being around when our base would come under attack. Note to self; I joined the Navy so I would NOT have to run around with 80lbs of gear on and get shot at….. What the hell was I doing in the most deadly place in the world living with an Army of soldiers who wanted to kill me? But I digress.
And I just don’t understand these worthless POS’s joining the Navy today, back in my day life in the Navy was different…..
For those unfamiliar with the Navy, when you join you are guaranteed a school or training in a specific rating (MOS in other branches) or you were “assigned” a general on-the-job training field, Fireman, Seaman, and Airman. Fireman field represents the ships engine mechanics and everything associated with that general area. Seaman field is what the lay world think of when they think Sailor. They are the Boatswain Mates, Signalmen, Quartermasters and the like. They are jacks of all trades on the ship, they paint, drive the boats, you name it. Airman, as you might figure works on the aircraft, helicopter or fixed wing. That is an area that has changed a few times in the last twenty years, from what I just described to everyone is sent to a school out of basic training. There are pros and cons to this change. Someone is going to do the crap work and that used to fall to the non-rates because if you had training you were needed in your division. But crap work did not go away.
In the early 80’s, most of my supervisors were Viet Nam Vets and could not understand the worthless POS’s joining the Navy today, because in there day life in the Navy was different…..
The 80’s was a particularly good time to be in the service. The economy sucked and Ronald Reagan was in the White House and the purses where opening for the first time since forever. The 600 ship Navy meant lots of money to buy things without many people checking very close to what things cost. Then the $700.00 hammers and toilet seats made the news. Now, every pen and pencil is accounted for. So that has changed.
The hangover of the 80’s spending brought peace time military cuts for the 90’s and Sailors were being paid to leave the Navy. Until, the Gulf War I. I was a Recruit Company Commander (Drill Instructor to the rest of you) during this time period. The size of the company went from 70’ish to 90+ in what seemed to be overnight. If you had a pulse, you graduated from basic. Now, it’s a bit more challenging with what is called “battle stations”, with real Navy world scenarios. So that has changed. Perfect? No. But better.
Post-Gulf War and pre 9-11 saw many changes some good, most not so good. Work smarter not harder and Zero tolerance were hot phrases. In my opinion, these philosophies has had the most impact on changing the face of the Navy. It became much easier for Sailors to apply for and get accepted to college and commissioning programs that resulted in a huge vacuum of talented worker Sailors. Some who came back as Officers with not great attitudes towards then minions who chose not to go over to the dark side. Zero tolerance prematurely ended the careers of thousands of quality, knowledgeable Navy leaders in both the Officer and enlisted ranks. Head hunting became the way to downsize otherwise great Sailors. That went away for the better part of the early 2000’s, but has returned under other names of rightsizing the fleet. Sad regardless what you call it.
Mid 2000’s brought in the social the engineering phase. Can’t we all get along? E-1’s have an equal voice in matters of “quality of life” and other issues, like evaluating their leaders. Sounds good on paper and in DC but in practice not so much. Sacred domains such as the Chief Petty Officers Mess on ships have all but gone away, because, who are they to eat better and have nicer accommodations that the regular squid? Besides, everyone knows that devil worshiping had to be going on behind those closed doors. And to promote to E8 you would now need a two year degree and to E9 a four year degree, or so was the threat (I took two college classes, still made E9, F’em). What may work for the Air Force does NOT work in the Navy.
In an effort to fill US Army positions as trainers and mentors in combat areas, the Navy who needed to cut 25,000 Sailors came up with a great idea to “augment” the Army with Sailors in roles of Embedded Training Teams in Iraq and Afghanistan. I for example spent 3 months in the Kansas snow learning everything there is to know about being a Soldier…. Uh, well as far as you know…. I did learn how to put plastic rap on a sucking chest wound and how to stick an IV in some unfortunate souls arm. Then sent to Helmand Provence, Afghanistan to train an Afghan Army Command Sargent Major how to be a Command Sargent Major. Yeah, not so much. He had a “night job” that prevented him from being around when our base would come under attack. Note to self; I joined the Navy so I would NOT have to run around with 80lbs of gear on and get shot at….. What the hell was I doing in the most deadly place in the world living with an Army of soldiers who wanted to kill me? But I digress.
And I just don’t understand these worthless POS’s joining the Navy today, back in my day life in the Navy was different…..
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts Master Chief, it's plain to me that the Navy I knew is vastly different than the Navy today. Lots of changes made since the 80's.
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I can't respond how the Navy has changed in the past 20 years, but I can let you know how much its changed in the past 50 years. I left military service as an AE2 in 1968; three years regular Navy, two years active reserve, and the remainder inactive reserve. Since then I've been on two dependence day cruises aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln, toured the USS Harry S. Truman, attended a 50 year reunion of my Attack Squadron along with 12 of my old ship/squadron mate, and I have about ten nieces and nephews in the military ranging from E9 down to E2 in all five branches of service. I also work with a group of vets that help wounded warriors.
Here is what I observed that we didn't have back in the day: ATM's scattered all over the ship, cell phones, Navy fatigues vs. dungarees, women aboard ship, women pilots, more minorities in uniform, ship stores with more choices, instead of VA and VF squadrons we have VFA's, and finally, were we every actually that young?
I'm sure I missed something but I sense that today's military is better prepared and maybe a bit smarter than we were.
However, I still can't get over having women aboard ship. I'm sure they are every bit as qualified as the guys, I just don't think having a relatively small group of women aboard ship with a relatively young contingent of men with raging hormons was a very wise thought-out decision...at least it wouldn't have been back in the old Navy.
Here is what I observed that we didn't have back in the day: ATM's scattered all over the ship, cell phones, Navy fatigues vs. dungarees, women aboard ship, women pilots, more minorities in uniform, ship stores with more choices, instead of VA and VF squadrons we have VFA's, and finally, were we every actually that young?
I'm sure I missed something but I sense that today's military is better prepared and maybe a bit smarter than we were.
However, I still can't get over having women aboard ship. I'm sure they are every bit as qualified as the guys, I just don't think having a relatively small group of women aboard ship with a relatively young contingent of men with raging hormons was a very wise thought-out decision...at least it wouldn't have been back in the old Navy.
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45 years ago to do not have the Internet to do not have cell phone hack PlayStation Gameboy Xbox all we had was card,checker, backgammon, how cell phone was from our Mars stations.
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I retired in 1989. I don't know if I could make it in today's Navy. In today's Navy I would, oh never mind it's just too much for me.
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I'm on a carrier that is in rcoh rite now we do have to have internet to take care of all the work related tags just about every th ing is online now ur leave is online . And we can use cell phones just not on watch, in the plant only time we can have it out is when we go on lunch break or up in berling
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Illegal aliens and openly gay folks have been permitted to join. Those groups have lowered the morals and morale of the Sailors in my units. The Navy refuses to house gays seperately setting up sexual harrassment in the barracks and on ships. Sexual harrassment is not acceptable inthe work station...but somehow is ok where you spend the majority of the time. Terrible social experiment gone wrong.
The Navy has also cut corners to allow expanded roles to females. The F-14 fighter pilot training program and the Field Medical Service School are just two examples. In the F-14 case people were killed because the standards were lowered to alloe the female pilots to pass and 'earn' their wings. In the FMSS example the same thing happened with the result in my case being 36 out of 40 in my platoon had to cheat to 'pass' the course. The instructors looked the other way because it was easier to allow that than it was to explain to Big Navy why 90% failed.
The high numbers of Corpsmen attending FMSS sets up another mistake. Far too many were then sent to other finishing schools. After the second finishing school likr Pharmacy Tech, realistically they are not going to ever serve with an FMF unit. Their numbers were counted as a viable Sailor grossly inflating the numbers of available FMF Corpsmen anyway.
That policy caused some units to run far short of adequate manpower. The normal ratio is 1 Corpsman to about 50 Marines during peacetime. With 8th ESB I had 1 other Corpsman with me and we had 520 between us to look after. Just trying to keep up with the shots on that many with only two men is i possible.
The Navy has also cut corners to allow expanded roles to females. The F-14 fighter pilot training program and the Field Medical Service School are just two examples. In the F-14 case people were killed because the standards were lowered to alloe the female pilots to pass and 'earn' their wings. In the FMSS example the same thing happened with the result in my case being 36 out of 40 in my platoon had to cheat to 'pass' the course. The instructors looked the other way because it was easier to allow that than it was to explain to Big Navy why 90% failed.
The high numbers of Corpsmen attending FMSS sets up another mistake. Far too many were then sent to other finishing schools. After the second finishing school likr Pharmacy Tech, realistically they are not going to ever serve with an FMF unit. Their numbers were counted as a viable Sailor grossly inflating the numbers of available FMF Corpsmen anyway.
That policy caused some units to run far short of adequate manpower. The normal ratio is 1 Corpsman to about 50 Marines during peacetime. With 8th ESB I had 1 other Corpsman with me and we had 520 between us to look after. Just trying to keep up with the shots on that many with only two men is i possible.
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I'm glad I got out of the navy in 06 before everything really started changing. Especially the uniforms. Bleck
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