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Posted >1 y ago
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SFC, I don't think in my personal opinion we have to identify them. Normally they do it to themselves with their actions, attitudes, and beliefs that are inflicted on the troops under them. Maybe what should be asked is "how to rid ourselves of them properly, and not get rid of someone just because someone else doesn't like them". Most leaders I've had weren't popular; but they were extremely effective in getting the mission accomplished, and taking care of the troops in the process. We need those. What we don't need are NCO's who have rank just for themselves; the hell with the creed, or officers who only look for that next promotion and would screw over their battles to get it. Problem is, we see way too many of the bad types making it, and the ones who really care, mentor, and want others to excel get passed over because they're not part of the "In Crowd".
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I think the best way to get rid of toxic leadership is through mentoring at all levels, leader involvement (especially needed for accurate evaluations), quarterly counseling, and accurate in depth evaluations. The new Army OER/NCOER system is forcing leader involvement, but we have a ways to go. I personally feel that quality mentorship from the beginning of a leader's career will go far towards nipping toxic leadership in the bud before it starts, or at least identify those who are prone to it and remove them before they have a chance to have an effect.
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Unfortunately they are everywhere. What to do with them? Good question. Provide retraining and document it. If nothing changes time to go bye-bye!
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SFC (Join to see)
I agree 100%. they are everywhere from the lowest to the highest in our Armed Forces, I can't understand why these "Parasites" exist...
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SCPO David Lockwood
SFC (Join to see) - They slip through the cracks. But as of the past few years I have been seeing quite a few of them getting the boot.
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I responded with "I have seen them everywhere in both Officers and NCOs Ranks..."
It's a problem that is more widespread in some commands than others. It needs to be addressed, but typically doing it as a subordinate is a bad idea. try to approach the leader's peer and have them discuss it. I will say though that this doesn't always work. I have tried this approach with peers of mine and sometimes they are receptive, but I'd say nearly 50% of the time they are not, with a small percentage actually getting worse afterwards.
It's a problem that is more widespread in some commands than others. It needs to be addressed, but typically doing it as a subordinate is a bad idea. try to approach the leader's peer and have them discuss it. I will say though that this doesn't always work. I have tried this approach with peers of mine and sometimes they are receptive, but I'd say nearly 50% of the time they are not, with a small percentage actually getting worse afterwards.
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SSG Warren Swan
Sir with a junior leader wanting to talk to someone about a senior leader being toxic how could you go to that leaders peer? I know the open door policy, but that goes up; not across. I'm speaking as if joe snuffy E5 has an issue with his CDR (O3), he'd use his NCO support channel and allow them to address the issue and get it resolved. I'd hope that joe snuffy E5 wouldn't walk to another CDR in the same Battalion who is his CDR's peer and ask for advice. I'm not doubting your methods Sir, but would ask clarification on them.
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LCDR (Join to see)
I'd have the E-5 talk to one of the O3's friends/peers. I've been approached by enlisted and more junior officers that worked for someone of my same rank and I've been the one to talk to him, without saying who brought the issue to me.
This isn't jumping the chain of command by the way, with what I'm talking about it's actually trying to improve the leader. I definitely would not go to their boss. A good alternate that you mentioned is taking it up the NCO chain of command, but ironically there is a better chance of the person actually getting in trouble that way.
This isn't jumping the chain of command by the way, with what I'm talking about it's actually trying to improve the leader. I definitely would not go to their boss. A good alternate that you mentioned is taking it up the NCO chain of command, but ironically there is a better chance of the person actually getting in trouble that way.
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LCDR (Join to see)
SSG Warren Swan I also realize this is probably very different with a battalion than I am speaking of with experience in a squadron. typically there are anywhere from 50-60 junior officers (O2 and O3, more if you could the Department Heads as O4s) so chances of finding someone easily approachable but not in the chain of command are pretty high. It's also a very different climate.
I think you are right to wonder if what I am saying would be a good method in a different organization. It could potentially have severe issues.
I think you are right to wonder if what I am saying would be a good method in a different organization. It could potentially have severe issues.
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SSG Warren Swan
LCDR (Join to see) - Thanks Sir. I've never heard it explained using your method, so it was confusing on my end. But I'm crystal now, and understand what you meant.
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It is extremely difficult to live and work under a toxic leader. I have and it is no picnic.
Best course of action is to be extraordinarily professional. Toxic people identify themselves, and sooner or later get theirs.
Best course of action is to be extraordinarily professional. Toxic people identify themselves, and sooner or later get theirs.
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1SG Michael Blount
1SG Michael Blount - Mine is/was so bad, it was a major factor in my deciding not to fight being forced out.
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1SG (Join to see)
Sorry to hear that, 1SG Michael Blount.
My guy would like to, but won't get the satisfaction.
He's a real piece of work.
My guy would like to, but won't get the satisfaction.
He's a real piece of work.
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