Posted on Nov 6, 2016
SPC Erich Guenther
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For those that are unaware members of the Railroad Retirement Board system are exempt from Social Security and use the RRB instead. Currently the RRB rules are more generous than SS and the RRB is allowed to invest surplus funds via a non-profit trust. Currently the RRB has a $25 Billion surplus and allows railroad members with 30 years service to retire at age 60 with full benefits.
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CDR Naval Aviator
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This a challenging question because it depends on what you believe Social Security is meant to do in this day and age. Many decades ago social security was the only program that helped many of those in the lower income brackets survive once they stopped working. It also supplemented a persons pension. The advent of the 401K programs as supposed to alleviate the strain of contributing and maintaining pensions on corporations by allowing workers to fund their retirement. Of course the other part of this program was continual pay raises each year to help workers invest and save what would be the equivalent of a pension. Unfortunately those pay raises never occurred in the manner required and many today will need to rely on social security to ensure ends meet as they retire.

My solution would be as follows:
1. Currently social security contributions top out at $127,200 in 2017. Above that amount the percentage of income that is taken for social security decreases. I would remove this limit. If you make $12 million then you should pay 6.2% on the $12 million.
2. I would also increase the age at which you can start taking withdrawals except if you can prove you need the money.
3. I would have initial payouts smaller and increase as you get older to replace investment income.
4. I would setup the social security in a similar fashion as TSP in that there are funds to invest the contributions in. For instance each year group of workers would be invested in a target date fund and have a target date for when the can start to get withdrawals. so workers born in 1960 would be put into a 2030 target fund. Those born in 1970 would be in a 2040 target fund, and so on. The farther off the date the more risky and more rewarding the investment. The closer to retirement the more cautious the investment portfolio. Basically the funds from younger workers are invested in higher return investments to provide greater growth while older workers contributions are invested in stable return investments to provide regular income for those who are receiving SS checks.
5. As mentioned by others, congress can not touch the program or the money involved.

While a sovereign wealth fund or the RRB sounds like a great idea the issue is that we don't have excess money (RBB) and we don't have a significant source of national income like oil (Sovereign wealth fund).

I would argue that social security was once an entitlement but now it is a necessity. Had corporations keep the pension program around then there could be a significant cutback, but that is not the case.

I've toyed with idea of getting rid of SS and making it into a mandatory 401K like program but that defeats the main purpose of SS which is to help those who need it most live day to day. Without the large single pot of money there would be no checks for the permanently disabled and those who are extremely poor and never had a chance to save. Of for that matter the baby boomers who a screwed thanks to the mistakes they made with the housing market or the kids of the latest generation who may not have SS and will have a crippling national debt to deal with. I suppose a smaller fund for those truly needy and everyone else gets 401K like program could work. Still it would be tough to do, especially since the program has been around for so long, so many people are invested and it is a behemoth. Better to tweak the program at this point.

Of course you will not be able to do anything without a concrete plan that ensures contributors don't suddenly lose money. With out that you are dead in the water on trying to change SS.
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CDR Naval Aviator
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Mary, thanks for the comment. I will have to take a closer look at the Nordic model. I only know the basics of the program. Thanks for commenting.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
PO3 Donald Murphy
>1 y
SGT Mary G. - Actually we pay higher taxes than Europe and get worse care. Remember, your medical insurance premium only covers your membership in the club. You still have deductibles, prescriptions, office visits, out of pocket, etc. Add in all of that, plus dental, vision and 401K and you're at probably 50% of your pay. By comparison, most of Europe pays 33.33% and out of that they get 100% free med, dental, life and a pension they can comfortably retire on.
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SGT Mary G.
SGT Mary G.
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PO3 Donald Murphy - Very clearly our nation's finances could be managed much better - so we would get "more bang for the buck" Accurate accounting and transparent accountability would be a good start.
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SGT Mary G.
SGT Mary G.
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CDR (Join to see) - You're welcome. I haven't started wading through this more in depth study below, yet, presented in a 165 page pdf from The Research Institute of the Finnish Economy (ETLA) entitled: "THE NORDIC MODEL Embracing globalization and sharing risks". Its food for thought. <http://economics.mit.edu/files/5726>
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Col Joseph Lenertz
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We are living significantly longer than when SS was created, so I would phase in a gradual increase in age to catch up with our increased life span.
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TSgt Dan Decker
TSgt Dan Decker
9 y
Not at all, Col. It's personal family history. No males in my family on either side live beyond 75 in the last 150 years. If I live beyond 75, then I'll have lost some money. If I do before I reach 75, I will have maximized my SS. Actually, I did retire from the Air Force in 1986, from teaching high school in TX in 2006, from teaching college in 2012, from SS in 2009. I still kept working past 2009 and they docked my SS check for it, but as soon as I hit 65, my work pay went to full, no deductions for having retired early. If I live for another 5+ years, then I'll have lost money by my strategy. I'm 70 now. I have diabetes, Crohn's Disease, neuropathy all 4 limbs, two kinds of heart disease, arthritis, degenerative bone disease. I suspect that my strategy will result in my being pretty smart about it. WE have to be practical about these things.
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TSgt Dan Decker
TSgt Dan Decker
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SGM (Join to see) - No problems with having to eat dog food, SGM; I also draw full 100% permanent and total disability from the VA. And I have an M.A. in History so I'm pretty well set for education, too.
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SGM Retired
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TSgt Dan Decker I didn't mean it you personally, but the big "you"; all the people who think the Nanny government will tuck them safely in their beds every night. I hope you beat the odds.
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TSgt Dan Decker
TSgt Dan Decker
9 y
Social Security, even if it survives, will not let you even live above the poverty level. My wife makes $53K per year. We get this little letter every year saying how much Social Security will be paying her when she reaches the age of 67, about $1300 a month, or $15,600 a year. If I am unable to get her DIC through the VA when I die, she's going to have a tough time of it. Her SS will barely cover our mortgage.
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Capt Michael Greene
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To those who would privatize SS, I give these observations.

A. For many decades, SS has worked pretty well. It's one of the most successful government programs in existence. So make tiny adjustments if you must, but don't change a fundamental aspect of the program.
B. Investing in stocks? Privately managed accounts? I have just three words: 1987, 2000, 2008.
C. Look at who really supports privatization (or whatever they want to call it): The bankers who will profit from it and the senators who profit from them.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
PO3 Donald Murphy
>1 y
Captain, it works in Europe. It's called GMP (Guaranteed Minimum Pension). The government invests your money and guarantee's you a set pension. If your GMP is 100 per month and the government's investment only earned 90, then the government eats the extra 10 so that you get 100. If the government's return is 130, you get your 100 and the government keeps the 30. You then get a bonus patting the goverment on the back for doing a good job. This keeps things fluid, healthy and makes sure that there is no risk.
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1LT Aaron Barr
1LT Aaron Barr
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With respect, SS is a government-mandated and operated Ponzi scam that will crash eventually if not altered from its current state.
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PO1 Michael Fullmer
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I remember after my grandfather died, having worked for the RR for 50 odd yrs, my grand mother's pension from the RRB was most generous right up to the day she passed. If that system worked that well for those retired RR'ers, then why couldn't it work that well for everyone else.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
PO3 Donald Murphy
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TSgt Frank Shirley - Thats just shitty accounting. That's not lifestyle as a whole. If you plan correctly you can reach your goals. Publix supermarket of all things, gives an easy opportunity to be a millionaire.
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Capt Jim Ross
Capt Jim Ross
9 y
while the RR retirement system is good, there is a drawback, and that is you must live 30 days after your retire before you are able to draw your retirement. If you die on day 29, both you and your wife are screwed as there will be no retirement.
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Maj John Bell
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Government one size fits all solutions don't fit any.

I would bite the bullet and wean the aging population off it over the next 40-50 years by gradually decreasing contributions, payments, expectations; and participation by attrition. I would tell new workers that they need to educate themselves about savings, investments, and retirement planning and end the program. Retirement is not an unexpected event that takes people by surprise. Those who fail to plan would have to "depend on the kindness of strangers."

People should be able to take care of themselves. If I could have added my and my wives contributions to our private investment portfolios we could have retired at age 52, with an significant increase in monthly post tax income and after providing for our own healthcare insurance tailored to our actual medical history and needs. We would also have a substantially higher net worth that the government could steal upon our death.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
PO3 Donald Murphy
9 y
True, but keep in mind that this is not how Social Security was set up, nor how it is billed **NOW**. We were told/forced to contribute. When the government realized it was a handy pool from which to dip in to, all and sundry governments have exhorted Joe Citizen to make maximum contributions. Makes sense right? If you and I did something smart and took even a cheesy 401K, that would be money that the government could not steal. So while on the one hand, you are correct that social security as a retirement plan is flawed, the problem is that we the citizens, have been told just the opposite. This is why too many people have nothing **BUT** social security to fall back on.

So raising the retirement age from 62 - 72 may be cool somewhere, there are people who have reached 62 who have been lead to believe that this is their retirement plan. And to their credit, government has not gone out of its way to promote anything BUT social security saving. So why would they have known? Don't you remember all those slips your parents got in their paycheck envelope telling them to buy a savings bond? "Government backed. Safe." How could you go wrong, right? So why would a person likewise, feel that SS would not be a good idea?

Also keep in mind that we as a nation have proven that we are inable to allow people to "depend on the kindness of strangers." Hence our obsession (yes, thats the correct term...) for allowing un-insured people to get treated at hospitals.
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Maj John Bell
Maj John Bell
9 y
PO3 Donald Murphy - What you have said is true, that is why I vae said it would require a gradual weaning off the government teat. The 14 year old who is just entering the workforce now, would be told there will be no social security, he would make no payments. The 38 year old might be making half the contributions and expect half the benefits the 61 year old would be making full contributions and the tax payer would make sure that the promises that were made to him when he was 14 were kept.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
PO3 Donald Murphy
9 y
The way I have always been lead to understand, the system is based on credits with 40 being the maximum. So a person with less credits would naturally expect less benefits. Being a disabled vet, I have 40 credits automatically.
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CPT Tom Monahan
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Raising the age is part of the solution. Let the actuaries do their thing and determine if the SSA "tax" rate needs adjusted. Also need increase the pot for disability. Have Congress return the money narrowed from the trust. Lastly, don't let States, railroads, etc., opt out.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
PO3 Donald Murphy
9 y
True, but keep in mind that this is not how Social Security was set up, nor how it is billed **NOW**. We were told/forced to contribute. When the government realized it was a handy pool from which to dip in to, all and sundry governments have exhorted Joe Citizen to make maximum contributions. Makes sense right? If you and I did something smart and took even a cheesy 401K, that would be money that the government could not steal. So while on the one hand, you are correct that social security as a retirement plan is flawed, the problem is that we the citizens, have been told just the opposite. This is why too many people have nothing **BUT** social security to fall back on.

So raising the retirement age from 62 - 72 may be cool somewhere, but there are people who have reached 62 who have been lead to believe that this is their retirement plan. And to their credit, government has not gone out of its way to promote anything BUT social security saving. So why would they have known? Don't you remember all those slips your parents got in their paycheck envelope telling them to buy a savings bond? "Government backed. Safe." How could you go wrong, right? So why would a person likewise, feel that SS would not be a good idea?

Keep the age as it is. Government was too stupid to know better? Tough on the government. Suck it up and pay it out.
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CPT Tom Monahan
CPT Tom Monahan
9 y
PO3 Donald Murphy - something's need to change; it's currently a Ponzi Scheme. Raise the retirement age based on a comparison of the mortality tables from 1986 to today. We will also have to fund more in to the disability side for those who become disabled before the new upwardly adjusted retirement age.
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CPT Tom Monahan
CPT Tom Monahan
9 y
PO3 Donald Murphy - Agree there needs to be a stair step approach to raising the age (just like last time the age was raised). As far how it was sold and how it actually works... did I mention that it is a Ponzi Scheme. To add to the problem is our generation has chosen not to breed as many future payers as past generations. Therefore there are fewer young adults paying in per old person receiving benefits.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
PO3 Donald Murphy
9 y
CPT Tom Monahan - Yup - no argument from me. The problem is that financial accountability is not taught in school. And with government ready, willing and able to dip into social security, this is why the government is loathe to do what England did in 1988 and shut the system down permanently. Were the government not able to dip into SS, why...they'd actually have to be accountable. And that ain't ever happening...
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SSG Program Control Manager
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I would remove the limitation of Social Security taxes, so that all income would be subject to social security taxes at the current level for earned income under 120K.
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SSgt Robert Marx
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I would raise the retirement age to 70 and make all income taxable for SS.
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SCPO Jason McLaughlin
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I would raise the retirement age to 70.
I would remove the cap on contribution.
I would make the program needs based.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
PO3 Donald Murphy
9 y
True, but keep in mind that this is not how Social Security was set up, nor how it is billed **NOW**. We were told/forced to contribute. When the government realized it was a handy pool from which to dip in to, all and sundry governments have exhorted Joe Citizen to make maximum contributions. Makes sense right? If you and I did something smart and took even a cheesy 401K, that would be money that the government could not steal. So while on the one hand, you are correct that social security as a retirement plan is flawed, the problem is that we the citizens, have been told just the opposite. This is why too many people have nothing **BUT** social security to fall back on.

So raising the retirement age from 62 - 72 may be cool somewhere, but there are people who have reached 62 who have been lead to believe that this is their retirement plan. And to their credit, government has not gone out of its way to promote anything BUT social security saving. So why would they have known? Don't you remember all those slips your parents got in their paycheck envelope telling them to buy a savings bond? "Government backed. Safe." How could you go wrong, right? So why would a person likewise, feel that SS would not be a good idea?
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SCPO Jason McLaughlin
SCPO Jason McLaughlin
9 y
PO3 Donald Murphy - Social Security should be able to adjust to the changing reality of longer lifespans, less contribution, and higher usage.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
PO3 Donald Murphy
9 y
SCPO Jason McLaughlin - When though? I'm 54. Should I have to have years added on to my account? Presently I can retire at 62. Or are you talking about age 70 from a certain point onwards?

Also, to go "needs based" you'd need to let contributors know that although they are dutifully putting cash into the account, "the system" may decide that they don't need social security.
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SFC George Smith
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Put the 2 Trillion $$$ Bill Clinton out of the Social security Trust fund and replace ... re establish The social security pay outs, to the People who paid into the Trust fund and Those who never put into it don't get shit...
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