Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
write his /her ass up Then this response would be adequate..."Pvt Numbnuts you will stand by after formation." Proceed with the assignment of duties for all others and break formation. "Pvt Numb, have you lost your effin' military mind?!?" There should be an immediate response. Followed by either some PT and then numbnuts going about his duties as ordered or counseling with the Platoon Sergeant present and paper trail of said counseling.
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Being a Mustang, my opinion is that you ignore the second bad mouth, dismiss the troops and see the PVT in private with another NCO present. Your first approach, as a counselor, is to be supportive. Ask how the PVT feels. What's going on in his life? Is anything bothering him, etc. Rule out illness, drugs, alcohol, personal tragedies, financial problems, etc. Those things aside, ask the PVT what he would do with an insubordinate troop if he were the NCO. The discussion, if the PVT is calmed down and being rational, should lead him to the understanding that what he did was wrong on many levels. It was unprofessional, disloyal, against the values of the military and not in keeping with the traditions and purpose of the military. There should be punishment and a requirement for a public apology. Face-to-face show downs are never as successful in reality than as they are in the movies. Troops lose respect for a supervisor who looses it on a Troop, even if the Troop deserves it. Praise in public, discipline in private almost always yields the best results. Demonstrating calm leadership in the barracks translates to battlefield confidence. If you lose it when there are no billets flying, what are the troops expected to think about your battlefield leadership ability?
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Start by giving them the worst assignment possible. If that does not work then restrict them to base.
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Early on in my E5 rank I smoked guys like this. They straightened up after that. Later on I was in my 1Sgt's office with my E7 being told we cannot smoke joe no longer. We have to counsel them instead and let a 45/45 be their punishment. IMO, smoking is a better way to deal with dipshits. I've seen guys that get counseling and put on 45/45 turn into bigger dipshits more often than guys that are smoked. Idk.
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Whatever protocol is, that's what needs to be followed.
Would you be allowed to treat a civilian boss that way and keep your job? No, you wouldn't.
You signed a contract, honor it or gtfo
Would you be allowed to treat a civilian boss that way and keep your job? No, you wouldn't.
You signed a contract, honor it or gtfo
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I would take the young man out and first , ask if he had a hearing problem. Then i would state that he would do the job or task and if he wanted to complain then we would address the issue once the mission is completed.
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In my day the 60's take him out back of the barracks and have a serious conversation about the head and shoulders with my fists, however that is not acceptable any longer
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Re-affirm and direct, where did an E-2 get the idea that they had an opinion? If there is an issue with an order subordinates must understand the protocols for dealing with it. It's open defiance, the E-2 has already earned the Article 15 they can debate the lawfulness of the order with command. If upon redirection the E-2 continues to refuse they are removed from the formation (publicly) and held by the MA until I've finished with my routines...Then we'll discuss bearing and protocol.
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Dog 'em out. Tell him who I am and what he is supposed to be, while he is doing push-ups from here to eternity or at least until i get tired. He gets all the shit detail all week.
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I would light his ass up so that the rest of the division didn't think I was a push over and I would give him every single miserable crap job that no one wants to do until he requested TAD orders out of my division. I would have that dude cleaning bilges, scrubbing deck plates, mandatory berthing head cleaning three times a day, not to mention a report chit and a trip to the chief's mess. This is the military, if you singed up to be a problem you will be dealt with accordingly. Luckily for the rest of us who joined the military for the right reasons, the people like the guy in this example usually end up getting themselves either kicked out, or restricted to the point where they no longer hinder the rest of the division.
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Simply inform smart ass that what you have told them should be considered a lawful order. If they keep up the smart ass routine, and refuse to do the work, Article 15 for failing to obey a lawful order and insubordination.
If it continues, process ass-eyes for a discharge.
If it continues, process ass-eyes for a discharge.
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As it's an Order, the E2 must explain why it can't preform the Order..usually, from the front leaning rest position....
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would never happen telling a sgt your not gonna do it or give it to someone else.
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If i was the E5 I would drop everyone pt them for an hour still give private orders let the other disipline the pvt on there own time
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Drop the entire company except the Big mouth e2 mash them and then let them sort shit out
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