Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Military bearing
Discipline
Supervisor
Leadership
What Would You Do
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
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i'd give him one more chance to change his thinking before i put him down for disobeying a senior nco
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Not sure where this is going. This is a picture if a DI at a Marine Corps Recruit Training (boot camp). Chances are quite slim this is an E2 (PFC). While I made meritorious PFC during boot camp, its pretty uncommon. Also, an E5 is an E5 (SGT based on this picture). Perhaps you should just pose a question without a picture.
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How did he decide that his opinion supersedes his superiors? What did he do to earn that position?
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SN Jay Perry
USN vet so the worst place you could send someone who back talks PO's (NCO's) is the brig to let the USMC adjust his attitude. Had one individual who was just ESCORTED to the brig and got a chance for a verbal intercourse with Gunny who ran the brig at 32nd street. He was a changed sailor in an hour!
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Wouldn't even happen in the Corps, at least not when I served. That young PFC would be a former PFC standing tall at Office Hours, maybe a bit of brig time to help with the attitude adjustment.
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I'd ask another NCO to be a witness, then I'd explain the consequences for being insubordinate and give the E2 the direct order for the third time. If the E2 again refused to do as ordered I'd ask my witness to find the Plt Sgt. I'd explain to situation to the Plt. Sgt. and ask him to repeat the order to the E2. If the E2 again refused to do as ordered my inclination would be to escort him/her to the orderly room with the witness & the Plt. Sgt. and begin the process for punishment. I don't care why he was insubordinate such behavior is unacceptable and detrimental to the discipline and cohesiveness of the unit.
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As it is a custom to be nice and ask questions. In today's sad, no respect and my arm hurts Army. We have lost the ability to do justice, when a subordinate mouths off. It should have been handled in the beginning, the pvt tells his higher up about the situation. Not the pvt getting mouthy, that would never even happened with REAL SOLDIERS. Today's army is just warriors (weak and not understanding what the uniform really means). Ask a Vietnam or Korean war veteran what the uniform means. Guess I was beat down too many times as a PFC.
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First, I'd take his team leader and him into a private room so no other joes can see. Next, I'd have a discussion with both about the joe's attitude. If the team leader says he'll take care of it from now on, I'll let him or her deal with the issue. If the joe wants to keep acting up, then he'll receive negative counselings while doing corrective training and extra duty. I'd make sure he'd never get promoted after E-3 until he understood his attitude and behavior isn't that of a future NCO.
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Inform them that if they do not accept this assignment there are other jobs worse than this one.
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While the E2 is standing at attention the rest of the group is now doing push-ups etc. all on account of the E2, that would only be the start of it.. For the next 24 hrs no one would sleep and be doing crap details except the E2.. pillow parties will fix this issue.
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Sounds like a soldier who doesn't want to be there. If race or gender is a factor, I would suggest being careful and have another NCO present when you verbally discipline the soldier away from the others. Keep in mind that if there is one thing the military loves to do is, screw an NCO for harassing an junior soldier.
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SGT Randall Smith
In 1966 while in Germany we had a Saturday morning inspection by the CO. When they got down to one of the Pvt's that just got to our unit the 1LT, our CO, stopped and told the First that his man had a bad smell and needed a haircut. Really embarrassed the Top. Which was not very smart. After the inspection the Top called all of us to the Day Room and explained how he never wanted to be put in that position again and we would make sure the Pvt had a shower and haircut by 06 hundred the next morning. We talked to him, since we all lost our passes for the weekend, and he told us to get screwed, he had not bathed in a week and was not going to until he was kicked out.
About 11 pm that night he was dragged from his bunk and taken to the showers. With bristle brushes he was bathed and then with regular scissors he got his hair cut. His attitude was discussed. At 06:30 the Top came in our room and inspected all of us. He told the Pvt that he looked and smelled better but his haircut needed to be improved. He did not talk to any of us for the next 5 months. Then a levey came down and he was shipped out to Nam.
About 11 pm that night he was dragged from his bunk and taken to the showers. With bristle brushes he was bathed and then with regular scissors he got his hair cut. His attitude was discussed. At 06:30 the Top came in our room and inspected all of us. He told the Pvt that he looked and smelled better but his haircut needed to be improved. He did not talk to any of us for the next 5 months. Then a levey came down and he was shipped out to Nam.
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We had that problem once when I was in. A SP4 (Specialist) from 2nd Fire told an E-5 from an A&T platoon to F off after the Sergeant gave the SP4 an order. The SPC was arrested and sent to the stockade in Mannheim for three months under a new colonel. He returned a completely different person. The charge was something like disobeying the lawful order of an NCO. We were all surprised. The SPC was very short by the time he came back from the Heim as an E-1 and he was convinced he was no longer Special Forces material nor was he a lifer. He wanted to keep his head down, do whatever they told him and get out.
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Hmmm....Let's see, first I would call out the team leader and have him take said soon to be dead meat PFC to the side and detain him there until I was finished the other soldiers. Once finished with them, I would calmly explain to him that either followed lawful orders or the consequences will be dire. To punctuate the meaning I would then have the team lead take said moron PFC out to the PT field and run him until said PFC puked his guts out and then run him some more. If that didn't take the starch out of his shorts, then I'd put him on report.
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At this point its already gone to far! You start smoking his bags in front of all his peers, flutter kicks, front back go's etc. Until you get tired! There is no room for this in the military!
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