Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
Back in my ARMY it was, FIRST counseling in the Platoon, NCO room with all the platoons NCOs present . SECOND Counseling again with all the the NCOs of the platoon, present, and maybe some noise coming from the walls, Third it was called, a G.I. Party, fourth it was Out of the Army for the DUD. , But yes I get it, that was then and now is now.
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First offense I would pull him aside to privately (no pun intended) find out if something else is going on. I've found this to be very effective assuming this isn't a problem Soldier. If just being an ass, counseling and Art 15. I would never hit a Soldier but I can be rather menacing and frightening I'm told.
This whole thing flies in my face of what I'd truly want to do - something out of "Full Metal Jacket." Ask the next senior Soldier why he wasn't stomping Pvt Shithead's guts out right now. That's the kind of basic training I went through and the Army I knew from 1978 till around 1990 or so. If he caught me on a bad day it might go this way but regardless, the days of beating the crap out of someone are long gone.
This whole thing flies in my face of what I'd truly want to do - something out of "Full Metal Jacket." Ask the next senior Soldier why he wasn't stomping Pvt Shithead's guts out right now. That's the kind of basic training I went through and the Army I knew from 1978 till around 1990 or so. If he caught me on a bad day it might go this way but regardless, the days of beating the crap out of someone are long gone.
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I had this problem. I was that E2. But what my Squad Leader told me after taking me aside changed me for ever. He said he did not hand out assignments lightly. Some assignments are rewards for hard work. Some assignments must be done by who ever has the time. Some assignments are punishments. Yet others are for training. But in the end, he expects everybody under his command to do any of the assignments given. My assignment that day was to clean the bathroom. This actually was the first time at this unit that I was assigned this. I had to prepare my CO's jeep for inspection that day. But that would have to be my late day assignment. The bathroom needed cleaning. I scrubbed the bathroom to superior standards. TOP was impressed when he did his walk through. I ate lunch, went to the motor pool. I spent the night putting in a new wiring harness, a couple of new lights, brakes, and two new tires. By morning, I had enough time to wash the entire vehicle. My CO inspected it and was surprised that he could not find any dirt, grease, or oil on his jeep. And that everything was working correctly after all the other people worked on it.
So, I learned that anybody can work through the night to accomplish goals. I learned that compliments are only given if they are deserved. From that point on, I made it my mission to be deserving of a lot more compliments.
So, I learned that anybody can work through the night to accomplish goals. I learned that compliments are only given if they are deserved. From that point on, I made it my mission to be deserving of a lot more compliments.
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LT John Stevens
Sounds like you had a great Squad Leader. I had almost this same conversation with my entire division shortly after I reported aboard my ship as an Ensign and a Division Officer. I told them that they could always discuss with me why I was giving them directions and other questions but that there would be times when the circumstances would not allow time for me to respond and that I needed them to then do what they were told, immediately, and without question. Subsequently, I followed through on my word.
There were few times I had to act rapidly and my men were smart enough to recognize those times and to act appropriately. I also took the time to learn, at at least a basic level, how to perform the job of every one of my assigned men, and I demonstrated to them that I knew enough to understand what I asked of them. When appropriate, I pitched in and humped boxes, broke down pumps, brazed brass pipes, and any other job where an extra hand was needed. This is what leadership is all about. Not just telling others hat to do.
There were few times I had to act rapidly and my men were smart enough to recognize those times and to act appropriately. I also took the time to learn, at at least a basic level, how to perform the job of every one of my assigned men, and I demonstrated to them that I knew enough to understand what I asked of them. When appropriate, I pitched in and humped boxes, broke down pumps, brazed brass pipes, and any other job where an extra hand was needed. This is what leadership is all about. Not just telling others hat to do.
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As an officer, I would expect my first sgt to do all in his power to get this E2s head screwed on right and if that fails, to bring me in for recommendations under UCMJ. Insubordination cannot be allowed to grow among the enlisted ranks.
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In a calm voice "I tell you what. Since you don't like this assignment. Got some work to do after 5PM. I'll bring my lawn chair and you can bring a shovel. It will take us until about 9PM. So which is it?" Tell Squad leader I want a counseling statement on this soldier on my desk by noon!" Then make it happen at 5. All others get the message.
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You have to take care of it right there, or you have allowed your authority to be undermined and now no one will respect you or obey you.
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Step one. Front leaning rest position, move. Finish handing out tasks for the day.
Step two. Office with that dips***s first line while dips**t is riding the make believe motorcycle as I type 2 counseling statements up. One for disrespect and the other for disobeying a direct order. Explain to lack of brains why they were wrong and that actions like that will not be tolerated. Then explain that both counselings have corrective actions consisting of early work call and late duty for no less than 13 days to include weekends, cleaning everything no one will ever see and common areas.
Step three. Reassess the brainless wonder after corrective actions are completed and see if any further steps are needed, ie ucmj and a swift boot to the back side by Uncle Sam!
Step two. Office with that dips***s first line while dips**t is riding the make believe motorcycle as I type 2 counseling statements up. One for disrespect and the other for disobeying a direct order. Explain to lack of brains why they were wrong and that actions like that will not be tolerated. Then explain that both counselings have corrective actions consisting of early work call and late duty for no less than 13 days to include weekends, cleaning everything no one will ever see and common areas.
Step three. Reassess the brainless wonder after corrective actions are completed and see if any further steps are needed, ie ucmj and a swift boot to the back side by Uncle Sam!
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If this is a 1st offense, counsel him privately. If the behavior continues, article 15
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It's disrespect plain and simple, it's additionally insubordination. However you have to keep your cool as the Sergeant in charge of the formation. First things first? You drop that private into the front leaning rest position and have him count out pushups while you continue to hand out work assignments for the day. Further you assign someone else to supervise the private in the given detail, not letting him off the hook.
From there, later you write the private a counseling statement and make sure that is on record. Then have a professional talk with your platoon Sergeant and/or 1st Sergeant for recommendations.
From there, later you write the private a counseling statement and make sure that is on record. Then have a professional talk with your platoon Sergeant and/or 1st Sergeant for recommendations.
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First of all he does not speak without permission. Then you break your foot off so far up his rear until it is shining from toe to hill. Remember you are in charge and if you can not do the job there are quite a few waiting for the chance. Duty assignments are not a debate. We are not here to be their budy. We are here to train and that means learning how to get the job done. You command respect from your troops because you have the rank. You also command respect because the 1stSGT is going to be in your behind if you do not get the job done.
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First off i dont calmly tell them anything a second time. That is where you are going wrong by allowimg this punk to get to the point where they think they can talk to any NCO in a manner that their opinion counts. You obviously are the problem because this private thinks its ok to talk to you in that manner.
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I would work that smart mouth out of him on every shit detail I could give him. That's from an old soldier and sailor
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this happened when I was in basic, we all recieved restriction to barracks for two weeks, BLANKET PArTY @1a.m. NO MORE problems
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Article 15, confined to quarters for a month. Sorry son, we're gonna make an example out of you.
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First, I would drop the private to the front lean and rest.
Second, I would note the team leader to stay.
Third, I would start having the private do pushups while I explain the situation to the team leader.
Fourth, I would instruct the team leader as to what the private needs to do. And if the private does not do it to my satisfaction, then the team leader will be the one doing it.
I would make sure both know beyond a shadow of a doubt that what ever I say in formation are orders and not suggestions.
Finally, I would inspect that the job was completed to my satisfaction. Any back talk and I would ask my Platoon Sgt for an Article 15 hearing against the private with the expected penalty to be severe but be suspended unless the private makes demands again.
Second, I would note the team leader to stay.
Third, I would start having the private do pushups while I explain the situation to the team leader.
Fourth, I would instruct the team leader as to what the private needs to do. And if the private does not do it to my satisfaction, then the team leader will be the one doing it.
I would make sure both know beyond a shadow of a doubt that what ever I say in formation are orders and not suggestions.
Finally, I would inspect that the job was completed to my satisfaction. Any back talk and I would ask my Platoon Sgt for an Article 15 hearing against the private with the expected penalty to be severe but be suspended unless the private makes demands again.
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