Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 3697
In my 40 years in the military, I have never had that happen to me. You need to carry your self as a professional at all times, on and off duty. No matter what level of leadership you are in command of that unit. No matter what, your soldiers must know that and respect your authority. They have to have the confidence that you know what you are doing. In combat, when you give an order they need to follow that order. To many Officers and NCOs put them selves in the situation you have described. That is not professional at all. You are in the military, not in some political group.
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Demonstrate to all that this behavior is unacceptable and reprimand with with an article 15..... in the old day.... we would "smoke" that soldier so he would understand the consequences of his insubordination. Of course the extra curricular training would be related to the offense
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I would drop his a** and the rest of the formation to some immediate and rigorous PT. I would let his fellow soldiers know that thanks to Private D***head they will get more of the same each and every time he opened his mouth to say anything but " Yes Sargent ".
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EMI, After 20 or 30 fighting holes attitudes should improve. Or a wall to wall counseling session may suffice.
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The same way I handle new employees here in Civilian life...I raise my eyebrow, let them know with liquid nitrogen cold menacing calm that I can make them regret it if they don't, and allow them an opportunity to apologize and turn to.
"No second chances"
When under my leadership they should l know I won't assign anything I hadn't done myself before, and I'm not at all afraid to drag him by his short hairs if need be to the next level of authority (who probably gave me the order to pass down)...and they will decide whether or not the person needs written up.
If it's someone that's giving my seniors under me grief, I will listen, and take appropriate action, especially if it's something that is a pass down order through me. Chain of Command will be observed with little questioning and no disrespect.
"No second chances"
When under my leadership they should l know I won't assign anything I hadn't done myself before, and I'm not at all afraid to drag him by his short hairs if need be to the next level of authority (who probably gave me the order to pass down)...and they will decide whether or not the person needs written up.
If it's someone that's giving my seniors under me grief, I will listen, and take appropriate action, especially if it's something that is a pass down order through me. Chain of Command will be observed with little questioning and no disrespect.
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As a senior NCO I would have kept my military bearing the respect for this young man because he was an American Soldier but when I got through with his smart mouth that would be the last time he mad at anyone because when I got through tempting to court-martial him his life would be miserable and as a lot of senior ncos out there that would do the same thing but they don't want anybody to know it I work too hard to get where I was and I was not going to take no mouth off of an enlisted I didn't you take it off ncos of the same rank. I was a first sergeant and a line unit in Korea I was a battalion operations NCO I was in a senior instructor from my MOS I was just subject matter expert for the school,. During the first time in the desert spent numerous hours on the phone talking to people in the war zone and even had to go over there so I was not going to take no mouth off no private.
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Like the GySgt said, nip it in the bud right then and there. Any show of disrespect can have an adverse effect on the effective leadership.
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Back in my SAC SP days, anyone who disrespected anyone of a higher rank found themselves walking the Alert Tanker Area for a month. If the attitude was not adjusted by then, it usually went on towards an Article 15 and involuntary release from the AF.
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Navy! Remind Mr. Barfmouth just how deep the Pacific Ocean is, and just how far away CONUS is to swim and demand an instant replay to see if that tape was recorded properly. Furthermore, ask him if he swims faster than the sharks watching him thinking of noon chow.
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I just have to laugh, he could disagree, with me but he will do what I ask of him, unless I am asking him to kill himself or someone else, he has no other way to go. Do what I ask and we be OK, disrespect me and you will be in trouble. There is no need to ask someone else to do what you was told, specially if I told you in front of the other subordinates and you have lost it when you tell me to give it to someone else. Wrong answer.
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punish everyone else in his platoon for E2 disobedience, and remind the rest of the platoon to thank the E2,he is going to have to sleep with one eye open.
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I would probably say, son you would rather piss in your mommas cornbread than piss me off! Now drop and do push ups until your arms fall off or you will be getting a article 15 so fast that your head will be spinning
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We have a lot of Officers on here. Paperwork is a way to start an end to a career. This is a person we have not yet figured out how to mentor. I had a similar experience. We were in Afghanistan doing base communications. We were doing our evening changeover and a Lance Corporal from another section said, "Fucking Sergeant Momsen." At least that is what I heard. I got with the Sgt in charge of his section and we discussed my plan. Together we handed him a copy of article 91 and let him read it. I gave him a counseling and that was the end of that. I had no further problems for the remainder of the deployment.
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LTC Rudy Schulz
Good response. You took care of the situation immediately. No need to get the officers involved in NCO business.
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CH (COL) (Join to see)
Actually, I was going to say, "Turn him over to his PLT SGT." If discipline doesn't start with the first line supervisor, there is no discipline.
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Here s a suggestion for a situation like this, but you have to be prepared. Ignore the taunt. Call everyone to attention. Pull out of your pocket a copy of a Medal of Honor citation, and start reading it. My personal favorite at the moment is the one finally awarded artillery officer Alonzo Cushing at the Battle of Gettysburg. Who remained at his post, firing artillery during the height of Pickett s charge, holding his exposed guts in one arm, and continuing to fight with the other. The other person chose to try to humiliate the chain of command in public. In this case, swift and public response is justified. I don't think anyone could win a complaint where the allegation is that you read a medal of honor citation in formation as a way to motivate your troops.
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Well honestly, I was a fresh E2 but I was at one time also my Platoon Guide. Leading a team is hard sometimes when even only one person wants to be an individual among other names that I won't disclose here. We know what we call them. While the first thought would be to go off on them and punish them hardcore, chances are it's not that they simply want attention or that they have a problem with authority. There are plenty of younger kids these days that lack discipline, because they weren't given it properly. It does sound like off the bat that he's relating the issue to just get attention and show his peers that he doesn't want to listen (class clowning), so you make an example out of him. You give him a little lesson by excluding him from the activity, but make him do it with some hardship. Have him duckwalk to a wall or post nearby, and then force him the into the human chair position until everyone else is done with that task. Once the task is complete, you make an example out of him to show both your authority, and to discipline him. That is when you give him some heat in front of everyone, showing him both integrity, humility, and embarassment. If And you be more persistent than he is. You've got all day to work, even if that means making an example of him. If he keeps on, you discipline him accordingly and at worst give that boy corrective duty to further the humbling experience, and hopefully you won't end up with the paperwork of an article 15. If so, then you do it. This will also show to the rest of them that you aren't messing around. In accordance, this is in absolute agreement with @GySgt Kenneth Pepper. And as with other's responses, you must read into what fellow company you are in as to handle the situation properly. You're a leader, and it's your job. Be a leader. As a drill Sgt., your job is to break them down to build them up to proper standards. Without the first step though, often times it's impossible to mold someone accordingly if you don't show pride in your own "work".
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