Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
As an NCO you can NOT give extra duty, restrict to the barracks or take civilian clothing, HOWEVER you CAN assign corrective training, mandate a uniform, and give a duty location.
In the event that you recount, I would assign the task as corrective training, over and over again, to make sure it was done correctly, in a dress uniform requiring an inspection hourly, while assigning a bed for the mandatory 4 hours of rest as required by regulation. THEN...It starts over again, until that young E-2 has a real Come to Jesus moment and is too afraid to open his Cum dumpster. If that does not work, and he continues to run off at the cock holster, document it, and then invite them to a Big Chicken Dinner (Old Army term for Bad Conduct Discharge) SGM (Join to see)
In the event that you recount, I would assign the task as corrective training, over and over again, to make sure it was done correctly, in a dress uniform requiring an inspection hourly, while assigning a bed for the mandatory 4 hours of rest as required by regulation. THEN...It starts over again, until that young E-2 has a real Come to Jesus moment and is too afraid to open his Cum dumpster. If that does not work, and he continues to run off at the cock holster, document it, and then invite them to a Big Chicken Dinner (Old Army term for Bad Conduct Discharge) SGM (Join to see)
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SGT John Hamby
absolutely correct, SSG, that lies with the Company Commander & the 1SG, and as NCO's, it is our duty to enforce said training, extra duty, etc. , within Regulations
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A throat punch sounds appropriate at the time and then allow him to simultaneously drop to the floor. Then tell someone to call 911 and ask if anyone else has a smart ass remark? Then continue handing out work day assignments as before and step over the body.
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make him/her do some damn pushups !! then give them a counseling statement followed by some extra duty.
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SFC William Allen
I watched a PFC do flutter kicks in a hall way because he showed up late for formation one time. He didn't cry or anything afterwards. I was late for PT formation once as an E7 and I voluntarily did flutter kicks in front of the 1SGT's office to show there was no favoritism in that unit.
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Where did all of this “touchy-feely” BS leadership come from? I don’t care if his dog died and his wife is doing free porn with the PX staff. If you do not make an example out of him immediately, you are inviting that same insubordination when bullets are flying and people are dying. The only acceptable response is, “Yes, sergeant.” I’m old school when it comes to dealing with insubordination. When a service member signs their contract, they give up the right to me a snowflake. As a leader, you take care of them, train them and also know what’s going on in their lives so that situations like this almost never happen. I prefer the “you can respect me or you can fear me, but you will execute any legal order given to you” mentality. Also, I and every one of my subordinate leaders will lead by example.
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Rip his head off and shit in his neck; and extra training till he and everyone else in the company knows that is not acceptable.
But hey that's just me.
But hey that's just me.
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I have read several of these responses. Some have made me chuckle, and several have made me shake my head in disbelief. This coddling and know their feelings crap is unbelievable. “It depends on if it’s in garrison or the field”... bulls**t. If someone disrespects an NCO that blantanly, he/she has no respect for any authority and should be dealt with on the spot. Any NCO within earshot should have the SGT back immediately w/o hesitation. Everyone that saw the disrespect should know first hand that it won’t be tolerated in the field, in garrison, and reguardless of what unit they are in. No they don’t have to witness the entire punishment, but they should damn sure see that every NCO is going to be on their ass in half a heartbeat if they disrespect another NCO.
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Jack that shit-stain up like a Chevy with a flat tire. You have to kill that crap immediately. That bum would be pushing dirt until he knocks the earth off its axis.
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The problem is, our military is becoming pussyfied -
Hell, every time you turn around, someone can complain that you're picking on them and that their feelings got hurt.
The simply reality is, our military is not the military of years past. In the 80's that person would have been up on charges, and would have spent days regretting not doing assigned work.
Discipline is lacking seriously in our military units
Hell, every time you turn around, someone can complain that you're picking on them and that their feelings got hurt.
The simply reality is, our military is not the military of years past. In the 80's that person would have been up on charges, and would have spent days regretting not doing assigned work.
Discipline is lacking seriously in our military units
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SSgt Wright Joe
So that you don't seem to be picking on one person, inflict discipline on the entire group and let them sorry it out.
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SSG Mark Franzen
If I were you if your a NCO I would call him out of Formation and take him to aside if your not than I would bring to my section SGT or PLT SGT and let them Know.
SSG MARK A FRANZEN
USA VET
SSG MARK A FRANZEN
USA VET
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SFC Robert Jackson
Hi I feel "mass punishment" would be the wrong thing to do. You are taking it out on innocent service members who will see it as poor leadership. It usually backfires on you. You will have the great and good SM's pissed at you. The person who screws up gets the punishment. You can delegate to you junior leadership, squad leaders, squad members to help bring that individual up to speed. that makes them the process of correcting the piece of crap and teaches them good leadership. Just my style of leadership.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
HEY HEY you can't say Pussified....It's Internal Gender non-specific reproductive organs.
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I was a PV1 who did that but for good reason (in my mind anyway). My Squad Leader took me to the First Shirt who sat me in his office and told me to wait there for him. That was a long wait on a hot seat for a well deserved ass chewing from Top. That only took about 5 minutes which seemed like two hours but it turned my career around. I used that rather simple technique numerous times.
James Carr, 1SG Retired US Army
James Carr, 1SG Retired US Army
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Give them an inch, they will take a mile. Following orders is an inherent duty. There are plenty of ways to ensure compliance. If they are doing it for a task this simple it will get worse when in stressful situations.
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Frag the whole squad and PT the hell out of them. Then his peers will handle it in their own special way later that day.
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I never experienced it directly. Facial gestures and actions maybe. Complaining is different from disobeying a direct order. We used to joke that when the junior enlisted stopped bitching then it was time to worry. Handle as a leader whose goals were mission and welfare. Best to handle privately after formation but utilize his team or squad leader so they can be aware and learn. Never argue in formation. Praise publicly and often, counsel privately. Just be firm, fair, and treat with dignity despite his infraction. He might one day get through this phase and become a leader himself, and he will remember how it was handled and pattern his conduct accordingly so make sure you set the right example. Carry out the business of the formation and have a chat afterward. Communication is key and that includes listening but not in front of the platoon. Authoritative type leader just locks his body at attention and has a one way conversation. A less forceful one might ask his view to see if it's a legitimate reason or just because he wants to complain, and go from there. Tell his leaders and him what your decision is and let them handle it. So many tools available before resorting to paper. Besides the task assigned they could assign extra military instruction (EMI) to correct his deficiencies (ditch or sand bag detail, burn shitters, fire watch). From there it depends on his level of cooperation; everything from counselling to NJP (US Army Art. 15) but that is extreme and only if the situation dictates. Then just monitor his progress and stay informed by his leaders. If time is key, just tell him to "at ease" his mouth and that the task assigned is a direct order. Then dismiss platoon and tell leader(s) to monitor his progress. Carry on with your daily duties.
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I had this happen on the flight line and you can't let a fresh troop belittle you in front of the others or the rest will start to think they can walk all over you too. I would tell him/her to meet me in the office and then tell the others to get to their assigned duties. I would then ask him with a few colorful metaphors what his/her problem is. I would then tell them that if they have a real life problem to let me know but you will not smart off to me or any NCO in front of the others ever. I would then give him/her the task again and inform the individual that if they refuse again they will get a written counseling that will be put their jacket and let them know how it can effect his/her annual report and time in the military.
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LTJG (Join to see)
I quickly and firmly addressed this person. Essentially gave him no other option than to stand at attention and say "aye aye PO2." First "aye aye" was full of attitude. I addressed that just as firmly. He changed his tone. We had a not so pleasant closed door discussion with the LPO immediately after. Working 12 hours a day with someone, it is understandable how we can become "informal" with our shop, but at the same time, there is a hierarchy for a reason. I'm not your "bro" or your "buddy." Not sure why a SNA would think "Yo Martin" is acceptable. I've always addressed my superiors by their formal rank.. However, there is a problem in my shop. Chiefs are letting SN and below talk to them like they are buddy buddy.. Definitely not a good example. It completely undermines our ranking structure.
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SN Greg Wright
LTJG (Join to see) - No I meant the 'chiefs being buddy buddy' thing. Dangerous, I know, but you seem like you can do it right.
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You can't let a subordinate get away with this behavior no matter what. It will fuel problems with everyone because if Pvt. $hithead got away with the rest will say, "If Pvt. $hithead doesn't have to do it, neither do I." First start with a simple questioning of why the subordinate is acting this way. I think everyone deserves a second chance to make good of their actions. This may fix the problem but if it fails and he still refuses to see the error of his ways he asked for it, so give it to him. Office hours (article 15) with a recommendation to the company commander the maximum sentence plus extra duty. If you are in a combat situation though, forget the second chance. Find a way to get rid of this one immediately by whatever means you can.
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