Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
Take him and his team leader aside, and find out what his major malfunction is. If it’s just a bad attitude, address the behavior immediately in increasingly greater discomfort levels until compliance is given. Having his team leader drill him for increasing periods of time is acceptable (and legal! One purpose of drill and ceremony is to insure prompt obedience to orders)
Give the person every opportunity to comply, but don’t hesitate to cut sling after you’ve tried everything! Keep your chain of command involved!
Give the person every opportunity to comply, but don’t hesitate to cut sling after you’ve tried everything! Keep your chain of command involved!
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I'm old school that will not be tolerated. Call him/her front and center. Have them explain there major malfunction. After chewing said pvt. up and spitting them out for insubordination. Then smoke said pvt. followed by article 15 hit them in there pocket so they will remember how to follow a lawful order.
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I know what my Drill Sergeant would have done! He would have taken me into a private office with about four other Drill Sergeant. Then he would ask me again if I want to disrespect him again! I know times have changed but this is why our country has changed. We’re sparring the rod and look at the results. Disrespectful youth that have no respect for authority or mankind. The world is going to hell because man are afraid to stand up for God’s Laws!
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How about half right face? Front leaning rest position move until his arms are shaking. Then give him the order again
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I am a PFC and this happens more often than not. I was prior service Active and then came to the National Guard. I had a hard time with the transition but mainly because the lack of discipline. I don't believe in talking back to NCO's because if I did in Active I'd get smoked til the walls sweat, outside. I'm not in anyway saying you are like this, but it seems to me, NCO's are losing their backbone. It's okay to lose your temper and set shit straight. Especially to a stinking PV2. I know that the Army has changed a lot the past few years, but when did higher ups scared to get their ass chewed or second guess what was right for the soilder? You're the leader for a reason and if you let him get away with it with something like a counseling... It won't be long until the next guy does it.
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Having been both the snot-nosed E2 that smarted off and the NCOIC being smarted off to, I have to say I agree with the prevailing sentiment. Praise in public, Punish in private. I smarted off to an E6 (not part of my tank crew, but part of my platoon) about my living quarters. I received some wall to wall correction, and after having been to the medics (E6 rammed me into the corner of a wall locker throwing my lower back out) we took a trip to the First Shirt's office.
Top gave me some remedial training and "explained" how things would be from here on out. I was sent packing and do not know if anything happened to the E6. Later that same E6 and I became close, but in 86, when the balloon could go up at anytime, you quickly learned your lesson and did not hold grudges with your comrades in arms.
Later when I was in a National Guard unit as a forward observer and tasked as our unit's NBC NCO. We had a detail preforming maintenance on our M8 Chemical Detectors and our masks and had a private try to instruct me that he was NOT going to clean anything but his personal mask and work on zero M8's. After explaining concisely and politely that he would perform the lawful order I had given him, we took a trip to the First Sergeant's office. I put him on the carpet and explained everything again to him. When he started to speak, Top explained I was correct and if he expected to remain in the unit, he would learn to follow order or he would find himself launched like a copperhead.
Top gave me some remedial training and "explained" how things would be from here on out. I was sent packing and do not know if anything happened to the E6. Later that same E6 and I became close, but in 86, when the balloon could go up at anytime, you quickly learned your lesson and did not hold grudges with your comrades in arms.
Later when I was in a National Guard unit as a forward observer and tasked as our unit's NBC NCO. We had a detail preforming maintenance on our M8 Chemical Detectors and our masks and had a private try to instruct me that he was NOT going to clean anything but his personal mask and work on zero M8's. After explaining concisely and politely that he would perform the lawful order I had given him, we took a trip to the First Sergeant's office. I put him on the carpet and explained everything again to him. When he started to speak, Top explained I was correct and if he expected to remain in the unit, he would learn to follow order or he would find himself launched like a copperhead.
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During my last few years, my E4 mafia would not give me a chance to nip it myself. In fact a PV2 with just the appearance of disrespect would have several PFCs and SPCs in his grill immediately.
I was a big fan of the verbal shaming of a smart mouth newbie. "You don't get an opinion until your G I Bill is paid off."
"I can't hear you until the word sergeant is used."
"Watch someone do it in the front leaning rest."
Treat your soldiers firm and fair and you will see the same results of the E3 E4 mafia crushing the bad attitudes on the spot.
I was a big fan of the verbal shaming of a smart mouth newbie. "You don't get an opinion until your G I Bill is paid off."
"I can't hear you until the word sergeant is used."
"Watch someone do it in the front leaning rest."
Treat your soldiers firm and fair and you will see the same results of the E3 E4 mafia crushing the bad attitudes on the spot.
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Time for some extra duty after hours and possibly a meeting with the first Sgt.
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Immediately inform and he's been placed on extra Duty. That he will not only complete his tasks but everybody else is Task as well. He will be confined to his barracks the entire weekend. Talk to the motor sergeant, the mess sergeant and any other platoon that needs help ensure he is kept busy and productive. Conduct a daily inspection of his AO from that day until Monday morning. Give him only one hour personal time, required hygiene time and time to go to Chow. When he's not on some sort of detail PT the living s*** out of him. You must make an example of him immediately.
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I was a new SSG in charge of the last convoy to return to our unit location after a 3 week exercise. They left me in charge of clearing the barracks and lining up the last vehicles. It was going to be a long drive back, but half of it was going to be in the city. One of the young newly promoted specialists wanted to drive back with the doors off of the Humvee. I told him to put the doors on while we were in convoy. One of our subordinate units were there collecting their equipment and this soldier is telling me no in front of my peers of equal rank. I locked him up and in a voice heard in a hundred mile circumference let him know who was in charge and what his orders were. I think he may have peed a little. His father who was an SFC at the time complimented me after he had heard about it. When I was assigned to train our subordinate unit on some new systems, they gave me their full attention! That was the last time I ever had to lock up a soldier or yell in the military. I retired seven years later. Although I did rip an E-8 a new one while he was exiting my range with his rifle pointing at the bleachers. I was promoted to SFC a week later and he toasted me that night at the dinning in for doing my job and keeping that range safe and running smooth.
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Tell the PFC to step to the rear of the formation, assume the front leaning rest position and knock them out until I get tired, the continue with the formation.
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As a CW4 it's unlikely any PV2 will ever see me in formation. Just kidding... I go sometimes.
Personally, it wouldn't bother me much because my NCOIC would immediately crush their skull more than likely - then our 1SG would yell at them for not being at the position of parade rest while he was speaking to them. If not, I would likely put my cigar out on their forehead - God help them if I spill my coffee.
Personally, it wouldn't bother me much because my NCOIC would immediately crush their skull more than likely - then our 1SG would yell at them for not being at the position of parade rest while he was speaking to them. If not, I would likely put my cigar out on their forehead - God help them if I spill my coffee.
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Sorry, but I am "old School"...I don't believe in safe rooms, time outs or any of that other PC crap. He would be doing corrective action until I got tired. Airborne, All the Way!
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Standby. Let’s talk about why your an ass. If you have already have done written counseling we are walking to the first sergeant so we can move forward with either article 15 or chapter. you really need to have a talk with this youngster and figure out what’s going on. A little listening goes a long way.
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