Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
Maybe too much fraternizing with the lower enlisted. I had a Plt Sgt., who kept trying to make time w/ this private. The First Sgt cautioned him about it. Not long afterwards, the Sgt was organizing a detail and the private laughed at him. I immediately replaced the Plt. Sgt. right in formation.
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My first duty after returning to the states in '68 was to go through the barracks and tell anyone l saw to go get a haircut. There were only about 15 still in company. These were all returning Vietnam and Korea veterans.The reason they were still hanging around the barracks,is they were too short to be training.Can't remember all the things I was told to kiss.Finally realized the CO had a great sense of humor.I just shrugged off their failure to follow orders.
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Well, in the 60's and 70's in USMC...they would very Quickly Find out who is the Boss....
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Bottom line, when discipline fails, so does the unit. This troopie refused orders in public, so his immediate reprimand must be in public. There will be time to suss out his individual situation and motivation later, when you are deciding whether to to pursue ART 15 with the Company Commander.
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"Private, had I asked your opinion, I would have followed up with the opinion I wished you to have. Seeing as I did no such thing you currently have no opinion on the matter. Here is what I am ordering you to do without question or comment. Now MOVE!!" or "Private, Shut your mouth. I have chosen you to complete this task because everyone else has a task and I can't leave you alone for more than a second. When you are finished with said task you will report back to me to explain your insubordination in detail." I have personally used both of these with success. It is not necessary to raise your voice or yell. Talking back to any NCO or Officer when orders are being issued is not allowed, they are not part of some civilian company, they are a member in the US Military and fall under UCMJ. If they decide to take upon themselves the bad attitude and are not willing to explain themselves, that's fine. Pass them over when you are handing out daily tasks and have them wait. request a senior NCO to act as witness and higher authority,then lead the young service member to a nice patch of real estate, grass or sand is preferred, allow them to bitch gripe and moan to their hearts content as long as they follow your orders of physical exercise. Wash, spin, repeat. They will learn that you are in charge and your orders stand. It happens sometimes that the younger service members misplace their military bearing somewhere in their uniform, this is why they need to do a wide variety of exercises to ensure that this bearing can work it's way out of wherever it has become misplaced, it will fall down on the ground and they will find it and pick it up. If they have truly lost their military bearing then they have no place in the military and an immediate Chapter for failure to adapt should be begun, as long as they have not grossly destroyed any regulation requiring severe punishment.
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This is clearly insubordination, and this E-2, should be recmmended to the Company Commander and the 1st Sergeant for a Article 15, as non-Judicial punishment. To include extra duty and money 1/2 months pay for 2 months.
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Having been a petty officer on a small vessel as well as larger multi unit facilities -
This don't fly. Merely punishing in private is a no go. some on getting into trouble out of formation off base etc deal with appropriately in an office. Blatant misconduct in front of others merits swift decisive correction. As an NCO what you permit you promote. Dress them down then and there. Point out the error there. Finish the formations proceedings and then pull them and their next superior aside. Hammer pfc for insubordination. Look to next senior over said pfc and have them detail said member. Make it obvious to those in formation that this is intolerable behavior. If you start rationalizing every pfc's or non-rates poor behavior it will spread.
I don't care if your wife slept with then killed your dog. You are a professional. So be one. If pfc had an issue with the assignment he should have acknowledged the assignment and after formation pulled the NCO aside and explain any grievance 1 on 1.
This don't fly. Merely punishing in private is a no go. some on getting into trouble out of formation off base etc deal with appropriately in an office. Blatant misconduct in front of others merits swift decisive correction. As an NCO what you permit you promote. Dress them down then and there. Point out the error there. Finish the formations proceedings and then pull them and their next superior aside. Hammer pfc for insubordination. Look to next senior over said pfc and have them detail said member. Make it obvious to those in formation that this is intolerable behavior. If you start rationalizing every pfc's or non-rates poor behavior it will spread.
I don't care if your wife slept with then killed your dog. You are a professional. So be one. If pfc had an issue with the assignment he should have acknowledged the assignment and after formation pulled the NCO aside and explain any grievance 1 on 1.
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The first thing I would do is ask the E-2 if everything is going well in his/her personal life. I would want to make sure there isn't something personal that is cause the backlash. If everything is going okay with them I would start order him/her to do extra duty until they understand the chain of command. I'd also remind him of what the legal consequences that will follow due to disrespect and refusal to follow direct orders.
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Well, 20 years he probably would have gotten drugged across the compound. In todays Army you would have to handle it a different. The action I would take is this, obviously this Soldier must have something going on in his personal life for him to act out like that. The fact that he did it in front of a formation in front of Soldiers can't be over looked, because Soldiers would try to do the same thing. So if PV2 Joe Snuffy is having personal problems I would try to assist him with that but at the same time counsel him and reduce his rank. Let him know to choose his next actions wisely because his next pen to paper will be recommending discharge. This way you are trying to help the Soldier but at the same time sending a message.
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End that silliness right now.
Take him and his team leader into the 1SG’s office posthaste and explain the error of his ways. If the CoC has your back, and I hope it does, there should be several options on the table for him, both career ruinous and non-ruinous.
Take him and his team leader into the 1SG’s office posthaste and explain the error of his ways. If the CoC has your back, and I hope it does, there should be several options on the table for him, both career ruinous and non-ruinous.
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Letter of reprimand in his file, followed by article 15 if problem persists followed by chapter out of service at third violation.
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Sounds like punishment is the answer. WTF is going on in the military today. We are more concerned about the rights of soldiers who want to change their gender.
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My first response would be:"WHO THE HELL YOU THINK YOU'RE TALKING TO PRIVATE?!?!" Next response:" EXECUTE THE TASK I ASSIGNED YOU, OR FACE UCMJ ACTION!!!!
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FRONT LEANING REST POSITION..... MOVE.
But, seriously, I'd hand off my section to the most senior E4 and PVT and I would be having a serious conversation about his future. He would then read about that conversation and sign for it. Document these cases early, so you can deal with them easier. The more documentation, the easier it is to push for NJP or Article.
But, seriously, I'd hand off my section to the most senior E4 and PVT and I would be having a serious conversation about his future. He would then read about that conversation and sign for it. Document these cases early, so you can deal with them easier. The more documentation, the easier it is to push for NJP or Article.
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The E-2 in question needs a private “motivational” talk from the E-5, preferably out of earshot with other troops. His (or her) options need to be laid out. If this fails then a trip to the commander’s office (MY office) is their next destination. From there we can do a number of things... most likely non-judicial punishment would head the list. If that fails then JAG involvement would be needed for potential court martial proceedings. From there it might be some jail time with a dishonorable discharge. One thing for sure... this insubordination needs to be stopped dead in it’s tracks before it spreads.
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Article 15 for insubordination,loss of rank,afterhours duty were some of the things used to fix any dumbass who disrespects his superiors when I was in
What's up with this being an issue?
What's up with this being an issue?
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