Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
I totally agree with Gunny Sgt then make sure it goes on his permanent record
for his future job apps.
for his future job apps.
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"well pv2 dumbass you have several options. first, you can do the task ordered to you and you can like it, second, you can do the task ordered to you and NOT like it, third, I can smoke the dog $hit out of you and then you do the task anyway, or fourth option, I can take your pay with an Article 15. Oh, btw if you pick the last one, your life will suck for a LONG time."
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I have experience being an E2 and have mouth offed to a senior E5 and was smoked everyday for 6months straight. I learned the hard way. Well I since then I have had an E2 smart off to me as an E5. And what did I do? I smoked him, I got ahold of his team leader and smarted off to him too, and nothing worked. Well to make a long story short he got drunk and had a few under aged woman in the barracks and I promptly told my E7. I flew under the radar and he was discharged fast as fuck. Trust your leadership, do things under the books and take care of it. Chances are that that E2 has dirt on someone and that someone is a bitch and let that E2 walk over them. Be different. Fuck that private up, your chain of command will look the other way unless necessary
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As an NCO , 1st step -Oral counseling(praise in public/criticize in private), consult with the Platoon Sgt. about it so they know. and can advise. 2nd time -paper -write up consult with Plt Sgt again , 3 rd time - either another write up or a write up to start Summary Art 15 proceedings of course again keep platoon sgt in loop and then it goes to the Lt. for ok to go to CO for art 15 proceedings. Keep your ducks in a row, I don't know if there are racial differences or other things, so keep this official with command in the loop. Do not want to put yourself in a crack, or be looked at on the same level as this fool
Really the oral counseling better work, if you feel you can't reach him, explain to Plt. Sgt. This stuff needs to be stopped. Can always go indirect too and get E-4's to reach him. The Spec 4 Mafia often carries more weight and alot of times privates listen to them more. Also it is the "lazy" way , LOL, The 4 's already know.
Last couple years in (and then 4 years in the Guard) I refused many E-5 boards to stay a Spec 4 I did not want all the bogus performance reviews,baby-sitting privates ,having your balls put in a jar, etc. God. if a new E-2 disrespected me in an official capacity(or even off duty in a serious way ) , they would find out real quick, which side toast is buttered on and who butters it. I carried some weight in unit , and off-duty, and off post. plus I was a BAMF. Would have been a bad idea to cross me, I have had to explain that nicely to such persons, a few privates (even a couple Lt.'s LOL) before . They fell in line or they were basically started on the way out the Army. Such people need to corrected quick because they will not change otherwise , And if you don't so something that soldier is probably going to step on their dicks to the wrong people, or phuck up, and will be out the door.
Really the oral counseling better work, if you feel you can't reach him, explain to Plt. Sgt. This stuff needs to be stopped. Can always go indirect too and get E-4's to reach him. The Spec 4 Mafia often carries more weight and alot of times privates listen to them more. Also it is the "lazy" way , LOL, The 4 's already know.
Last couple years in (and then 4 years in the Guard) I refused many E-5 boards to stay a Spec 4 I did not want all the bogus performance reviews,baby-sitting privates ,having your balls put in a jar, etc. God. if a new E-2 disrespected me in an official capacity(or even off duty in a serious way ) , they would find out real quick, which side toast is buttered on and who butters it. I carried some weight in unit , and off-duty, and off post. plus I was a BAMF. Would have been a bad idea to cross me, I have had to explain that nicely to such persons, a few privates (even a couple Lt.'s LOL) before . They fell in line or they were basically started on the way out the Army. Such people need to corrected quick because they will not change otherwise , And if you don't so something that soldier is probably going to step on their dicks to the wrong people, or phuck up, and will be out the door.
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Well back in the 60's and 70's he would spend a lot of time on KP and guard duty
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Drop for push ups NOW or meet SP4"nutjob" later
I WAS Sp4 "nutjob"Scouts are tight FOR A REASON.
I WAS Sp4 "nutjob"Scouts are tight FOR A REASON.
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Such a blatant show of disrespect must be dealt with immediately, quickly, and with direct brim to brim , eye ball to eye ball motivational manner..Everyone but this E2s fire team, or squad leader is dismissed, for a heart to heart discusion.
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I was a smart ass but not until I made E-4 and had a combat tour (not just a deployment) under my belt. That being said, even though I was a smart ass and made jokes I still followed lawful orders. Didn't matter what I had going on upstairs or back home. Work was work and fun was fun and even though my NCOs knew it was harmless and I always followed lawful orders I still got the shit smoked out of me for opening my trap. After the smoking was done we had a good laugh and I still got my ass back to work. Obviously PV2 shitbird hasn't earned that right yet so in the time being put his dick in the dirt or out of the army but one way or another this problem can be resolved pretty quickly.
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1969 Basic at Ft Jackson we had lots of people who really did not want to be there. This private would have been pulling KP, fire watch, cleaning toilets, ..... till he had a real attitude adjustment.
Another option is to let the squad or platoon handle the E2. Discipline the entire unit for the attitude of this individual. Extra tasks, pre-PT test (run laps, do push-ups..). Extra patrols, guard duty...
Another option is to let the squad or platoon handle the E2. Discipline the entire unit for the attitude of this individual. Extra tasks, pre-PT test (run laps, do push-ups..). Extra patrols, guard duty...
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This is a very difficult subject. If you are the E5 you must discourage this behavior immediately (albeit respectfully). I faced this situation on a number of occasions when I was a squad leader on prior enlistment (1988 - 1996). It isn't easy to do, particularly when many of the soldiers are your friends, but it is absolutely necessary to correct this behavior. If this isn't dealt with, your soldiers will begin to think that this is appropriate behavior and it will become the norm, and discipline will become lax jeopardizing the unit.
As an example, I am currently deployed as a surgeon on an FRST at a FOB in Afghanistan; our Detachment Sergeant is extremely lax with our enlisted soldiers, and our commander has been complacent with this. As a result 6 months into the deployment, they feel at ease being disrespectful to all members of the team by means of smart remarks, eye rolls, insubordination, etc. For example, a specialist challenged our orthopedic surgeon about whether or not he should perform a surgery on a combat injured patient. While I don't think it is out of malice, their behavior is inappropriate and unchecked. Our soldiers sleep in frequently and spent their day watching TV, Youtube, and playing video games. When they are given reading assignments for educational lectures they frequently neglect to complete them. Due to the complacencies of the command and breakdown of discipline, ultimately mistakes are made that compromise the mission and the safety of the team. For instance, our detachment sergeant left a loaded M4 in an unsecured vehicle. It was eventually discovered by another soldier and returned. The negligent soldier faced no reprimand or disciplinary action.
So in answer to your question, take the soldier aside, counsel them on their inappropriate behavior, and assure them that if the inappropriate behavior continues they may face punitive action.
As an example, I am currently deployed as a surgeon on an FRST at a FOB in Afghanistan; our Detachment Sergeant is extremely lax with our enlisted soldiers, and our commander has been complacent with this. As a result 6 months into the deployment, they feel at ease being disrespectful to all members of the team by means of smart remarks, eye rolls, insubordination, etc. For example, a specialist challenged our orthopedic surgeon about whether or not he should perform a surgery on a combat injured patient. While I don't think it is out of malice, their behavior is inappropriate and unchecked. Our soldiers sleep in frequently and spent their day watching TV, Youtube, and playing video games. When they are given reading assignments for educational lectures they frequently neglect to complete them. Due to the complacencies of the command and breakdown of discipline, ultimately mistakes are made that compromise the mission and the safety of the team. For instance, our detachment sergeant left a loaded M4 in an unsecured vehicle. It was eventually discovered by another soldier and returned. The negligent soldier faced no reprimand or disciplinary action.
So in answer to your question, take the soldier aside, counsel them on their inappropriate behavior, and assure them that if the inappropriate behavior continues they may face punitive action.
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