Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
I think if a PFC is talking back to you and telling you to choose someone else, then that kind of paints a background story of how he was introduced to the platoon and squad. It tells me that there could be an underlying issue with Soldiers and NCO's being buddy buddy. That will never workout, if a Soldier will not take an order from you when there's very little on the line, then how will he obey your orders in a combat situation.
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Easy. Just extend his working hours for a month or two and hold on to his qualification for advancement until he gets his act together.
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This is where I weigh in as a civilian with a 66 year career. So much of the daily activities of active members ( and Guard on drill) constitutes rehearsal for any occasions when things "get real". When I worked management jobs in the civilian world, telling senior staff to "shove it" was an excellent way to find the door in the worst possible way. From talking with my two military children, I know there are protocols for objecting to direction. That is no different than etiquette in the civilian world. Where it gets crucial is when lives are at stake.
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When a trainee called me PFC I had him pushing ft. Benning back to Texas but for this a counseling statement 1st offense 2nd offense Article 15. Most will learn there military bearing quickly after 100 push up
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"smart mouth" is really broad term .. its hard to answer because it really depends on the situation like if its just me and my team then I break his balls .. but as a leader whenever I got a task order etc for my team we would think it out and tackle it out as a team I obv would have full veto power .. now if we were in a company or platoon formation I would shut that person up and after I would remind that you cant do that when people are around.. you see as a team leader especially you need to know your guys very well which I did and they knew me very well . A lot of guys that get promoted to E-5 forget what it was like to be a Joe for some reason and go on a power trip ive seen to many times to count. they way I was that when were alone as a team or one on one etc we can say and do whatever but when people are around or there's work to be done we get after it.. I cant tell you how many times ive seen a shit job or detail come down and the E-5 just sends his joes out while he does nothing . like I said before when its just me and my team we all come up with a solution together and we cover for eachother .. Bottom line is it all depends on who is around and what the situation is .. like I said especially as a team leader you should know your guys like you would your wife and they should know you so if they just had a death in the family or a financial problem or their girl was cheating etc you know about it and lay off them if possible and let your squad leader know hell even the PLT sgt if you have to .. bottom line is and one in a position of leadership that leads through fear and intimidation is shit bag plain and simple and there is too many of those in the military .. YES I know my spelling and punctuation is atrocious
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They will push until I get tired, during formation, Then I will explain my expectations for him or her again.
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While still in formation, I pull the next highest ranking and direct him to go start the reprimand paper and confer with Command to start reduction in grade for refusal to follow an order, willful disobedience, and dereliction of duty.
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Step 1: Look the individual right in the eyes and ask, "What the fuck did you just say?" If corrected, move on. If not, Step 2: Have the individual stand fast after formation and personally counsel, they still have the assignment though. If corrected move on. If not, Step 3 take them to the next senior person in chain of command, where documentation can begin.
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The same way I always did
Squad/Platoon; HALF right face; extend to the right,,, MOVE... Front leaning rest position.... MOVE... In Cadence.... Exercise... 1.2.3.-1, 1.2.3.-2, 1.2.3.-3, 1.2.3.-4, 1.......up, 2.......up, 3.......up,4......up.....
Position of attention..... MOVE, assemble to the left..... MOVE
This demonstration of authority has been brought to you by..... PVT _________________. feel free to have a chat with him at your leisure; FALL OUT
This worked well until a kinder, gentler, mandate came down from the "X-Perts" the "Not-Square" building people listen to.
Squad/Platoon; HALF right face; extend to the right,,, MOVE... Front leaning rest position.... MOVE... In Cadence.... Exercise... 1.2.3.-1, 1.2.3.-2, 1.2.3.-3, 1.2.3.-4, 1.......up, 2.......up, 3.......up,4......up.....
Position of attention..... MOVE, assemble to the left..... MOVE
This demonstration of authority has been brought to you by..... PVT _________________. feel free to have a chat with him at your leisure; FALL OUT
This worked well until a kinder, gentler, mandate came down from the "X-Perts" the "Not-Square" building people listen to.
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I ask this why is this even Question! New sub standards in military! If they don't out rank you they do as told..... run your lips and you may get the boot to face! With the lack of respect Soldier's have now a days is unreal you correct it on the spot then, so everyone can learn that it is not the thing to do. If you feel there are reasons for the temporary loss of mind then talk in private with him. Good leaders always train,teach, and care for their Soldiers
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Platoon, ATTENTION! Half right, FACE! Front lean and rest position, MOVE! Problems have a way of working themselves out after that.
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I grab the loudmouth by his nose, pull him out of formation and make him give me 50.
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This kind of disrespect/disobedience cannot be tolerated and must be quickly corrected. I would make sure that the private understands the Rank structure/chain of command, and explain to them what an Article 15 is. Then I would PT their ass to death so that they would never think of doing it again.
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