Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 3697
Introduce him to my favorite NCO and Officer (SGM Miranda and Major Rights) they tend to have a sobering reaction to those questioning little tykes. Be sure to play the song by Archie Bell and the Drells....The tighten-up!!!!!
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In the 82nd as an E5,I would have put him in the leaning rest until he ETSed
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Crush it publicly and forever. If you have people to spare put someone else on the mission, change to pts and smoke him all day. Let the rest of the unit see you crush him. They should all day, "there but by the grace of God, go I."
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Tell him that out of respect for a 1st Lieutenant, and the NCO that instructed him to perform the task he will compmply or he will suffer disciplinary action, not shy of Article 15.
1st LtWJPieczara
1st LtWJPieczara
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Ok... their is no more close door counselling so thats out the way...complete what your doing that will give you time to process what just happen . As a NCO you should know your solders who is a dirt bag and who is squared away ,so you can ask him what the problem is directly after you dismissed your formation, he does not need an audience. That will take you down to option call the chaplain or chapter 13 .
I using chapter 13 because if theirs nothing Emotionally wrong with him ( wife had an affair) or something he just an a#$ hole and doesn't deserve to be their and nothing you do will change that.
I using chapter 13 because if theirs nothing Emotionally wrong with him ( wife had an affair) or something he just an a#$ hole and doesn't deserve to be their and nothing you do will change that.
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Sadly it all depends on the race and/or sex of the service member .......... It also depends on branch of service too ....... My career is in jeopardy if I make a mistake here ........ .a lot of these situation are long in the making with a lot of advice from sea/barracks lawyers .....
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COL Hugh Stirts
I have to disagree in one aspect CPO Malay. None of that scenario depends on race/sex/education/background. The individual is a soldier, and as such, should certainly face punishment. Thanks for your service Joseph
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First off. Stop what I am doing and all my focus is on this individual. Order him to do this task and assign another task as well. Document the issue and look for trends. Back in my day he would be assigned some extra curricular activities they call hazing today.
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1st I would call everyone to attention & advise PFC Name & team leader to stand fast and everyone else continue on with there assigned work details. Then I would march them both to the 1SG's office & have PFC Name wait outside while T/leader & I have a discussion with the 1st shirt (I would 1st find out if I can rep;ace him( I would explain why). He then would to go back to his work detail. Now I would bring in PFC Name (dress him down good) & then see if I can get him a Company article 15.
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I think if a PFC is talking back to you and telling you to choose someone else, then that kind of paints a background story of how he was introduced to the platoon and squad. It tells me that there could be an underlying issue with Soldiers and NCO's being buddy buddy. That will never workout, if a Soldier will not take an order from you when there's very little on the line, then how will he obey your orders in a combat situation.
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Easy. Just extend his working hours for a month or two and hold on to his qualification for advancement until he gets his act together.
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This is where I weigh in as a civilian with a 66 year career. So much of the daily activities of active members ( and Guard on drill) constitutes rehearsal for any occasions when things "get real". When I worked management jobs in the civilian world, telling senior staff to "shove it" was an excellent way to find the door in the worst possible way. From talking with my two military children, I know there are protocols for objecting to direction. That is no different than etiquette in the civilian world. Where it gets crucial is when lives are at stake.
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When a trainee called me PFC I had him pushing ft. Benning back to Texas but for this a counseling statement 1st offense 2nd offense Article 15. Most will learn there military bearing quickly after 100 push up
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"smart mouth" is really broad term .. its hard to answer because it really depends on the situation like if its just me and my team then I break his balls .. but as a leader whenever I got a task order etc for my team we would think it out and tackle it out as a team I obv would have full veto power .. now if we were in a company or platoon formation I would shut that person up and after I would remind that you cant do that when people are around.. you see as a team leader especially you need to know your guys very well which I did and they knew me very well . A lot of guys that get promoted to E-5 forget what it was like to be a Joe for some reason and go on a power trip ive seen to many times to count. they way I was that when were alone as a team or one on one etc we can say and do whatever but when people are around or there's work to be done we get after it.. I cant tell you how many times ive seen a shit job or detail come down and the E-5 just sends his joes out while he does nothing . like I said before when its just me and my team we all come up with a solution together and we cover for eachother .. Bottom line is it all depends on who is around and what the situation is .. like I said especially as a team leader you should know your guys like you would your wife and they should know you so if they just had a death in the family or a financial problem or their girl was cheating etc you know about it and lay off them if possible and let your squad leader know hell even the PLT sgt if you have to .. bottom line is and one in a position of leadership that leads through fear and intimidation is shit bag plain and simple and there is too many of those in the military .. YES I know my spelling and punctuation is atrocious
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They will push until I get tired, during formation, Then I will explain my expectations for him or her again.
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While still in formation, I pull the next highest ranking and direct him to go start the reprimand paper and confer with Command to start reduction in grade for refusal to follow an order, willful disobedience, and dereliction of duty.
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