Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 3697
As we all know there are three sides to a story, and a story inside a story. I'm a Vietnam vet and been in the Navy for 3 years and Air Force for 20 yrs. I've seen so much conflict between high ranks and lower ranks. More than enough lowest rank is always at fault. Its proof right here in this blog. All these higher ranks that are responding to this question immediately are on the E5 side. First of all , being CALMLY too one person may not be calmly to others. How did the E5 calmly speak to his troops. Was he calmly saying " Hey, do you think your bright enough to do this task"? Or was he very diplomatic when he asked this young troop to do this task. The E2 also could be a spoiled little brat.
I have seen so many E4 and above just let their ranks get to their head. It's like giving a MONkEY A LOADED GUN.
There was a CWO I knew who hated enlisted personnel, thought every one of them were stupid and didn't know their jobs, and talked down to them. He has been spoken to by other higher ranking officers to lighten up on he enlisted, but since he was an officer he didn't have to. This is just one example, of so many I've seen. On the other hand Ive' seen a lot of PUNK ASS Kids that are just out of control, and there is no discipline that well straighten them out.
If this E2 is being a Punk, I agree , he should be pulled out of formation and perhaps talk to him to see whats bothering him and why he reacts this way. If getting no place with him then serious discipline actions need to be taken
According to this E5 question, it sounds to me that nothing happened (no discipline acct-ion} to the E2 because the E5 may not of been at his best behavior also. I say this is because he's asking this question to see how many people will agree with him, and nobody knows the real story. Also the picture shows that this E5 is not calm and he is amplifying his authority.
I have seen so many E4 and above just let their ranks get to their head. It's like giving a MONkEY A LOADED GUN.
There was a CWO I knew who hated enlisted personnel, thought every one of them were stupid and didn't know their jobs, and talked down to them. He has been spoken to by other higher ranking officers to lighten up on he enlisted, but since he was an officer he didn't have to. This is just one example, of so many I've seen. On the other hand Ive' seen a lot of PUNK ASS Kids that are just out of control, and there is no discipline that well straighten them out.
If this E2 is being a Punk, I agree , he should be pulled out of formation and perhaps talk to him to see whats bothering him and why he reacts this way. If getting no place with him then serious discipline actions need to be taken
According to this E5 question, it sounds to me that nothing happened (no discipline acct-ion} to the E2 because the E5 may not of been at his best behavior also. I say this is because he's asking this question to see how many people will agree with him, and nobody knows the real story. Also the picture shows that this E5 is not calm and he is amplifying his authority.
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when I was in the navy I was a Senior RM3 in the navy and this SA mouthed off I took him to the transmitter room closed the hatch and got up in his face and told him I was in the military when you were in your mamma's stomach so keep you comments to your self and if I hear one more word first it is a counseling sheet then I write you up and you can explain it to the XO. He did not like it cause he had to go clean the head, I told him I did RM1 Did it and chief did every one that serves in the navy does it this is your one and only warning. I had raised my voice. after that no more problems.
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Sounds like remedial training here. I had this problem when I first got to Germany the second time. It wasn't so much mouthing off but they said they did not know how to do something. After one weekend of remedial training they straightened up. Funny how taking away there weekend makes them smarter.
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I would pull the private aside and let him know this wasn't a multiple choice of yes, no, maybe, or I'll get back to you, it was a direct order. Then I would explain what penalties could be assessed if he still refused, via an Art.15. He would then be asked to make his own choice.
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Had that happen once at muster. However, he had told another member of the division that he intended to get me to assault him by pissing me off (court-martial stuff). I did hold him in formation afterwards. His relationship with the division did deteriorate significantly afterwards, especially after he was caught sleeping on watch.
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That's what the front-leaning rest position is for (to be held until after the arms start shaking).
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Hand them some unpleasant alternatives that will make the presented task shine.
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IF I were at least an NCO, I would question what drugs the e2 was on. That “soldier” would soon long for the days of feeling the honor of the privilege of wearing that uniform and it would be a long time before the high rank of e2 befit the maggot...if ever. The poor lost soul would be made to want to go AWOL to escape my hell. I would find out who the maggot’s drill instructors were and inquire as to why their job was not done. Meanwhile, I’m sure there’s plenty of dirt needs a-shovelin’. Our military is nothing but the Girl Scouts without DISCIPLINE.
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Well, I suppose in today's touchy-feely Army you could charge him under UCMJ for refusing a lawful order. These days it probably won't stick.
I my day, he'd have been punched to the ground, and then charged with refusing a lawful order. Then, it would have definitely stuck.
I my day, he'd have been punched to the ground, and then charged with refusing a lawful order. Then, it would have definitely stuck.
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