Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
Wow!! I would write them up (counsel them) for disrespecting an NCO and disobeying orders and give them correctional duties that would take away much of their time and that are physically taxing. For example, before PT (around 5:30 a.m.) they would have to report to duty in ACUs and perform police call around the battalion or battery/company area and when they were finished they would have to change into PTs and still do PT. Before they go home in the evening, they would have to clean up some kind of cleaning details. If after all that or during that, they were still disrespectful then it’s time to start recommending for punishment
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I have been out for a long time, so this might not be acceptable in today's US Army. My answer would be "RUTHLESSLY" and all that entails The mere fact that one of your troops had the balls to do such a thing... well there is obviously an issue within the unit that needs to be dealt with ASAP. I would likely make an example of the soldier in question if for no other reason than to show the rest of the unit what happens when you "step on your dick" personally, professionally, and PUBLICLY!
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Suspended Profile
I know what my NCO’s did. That was the day I found out what “ain’t no rank behind the tank meant. But nowadays I’m sure you’re not allowed to take him behind the tank and give him a wall to wall Counsiling so I guess ask him nicely not to do it again? I don’t know.
I had this BS with an E3 that refused to make morning coffee after having section duty the previous day. I told him I would talk to him after morning quarters, I made the coffee. Even after a private discussion he still refused so I wrote him up. He refused the CPO, Div Officer, and XO. He went to captain mast, lost his E4 promotion, and was busted to E2. I then left the ship as I was getting out. He ended up getting written up for another offense during Ops in Vietnam and ended up in the brig on the carrier.
Today he is a priest... go figure
Today he is a priest... go figure
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I, an E4, told a E2 to do something (we all had a long, and bad duty period,) he asked why, I told him because everyone else had other stuff to handle before we could get liberty. He then said "but why do I have to do this?" Me, wanting to go home and upset he is questioning my order said sternly "Because you are a non-rate and I am a petty officer, and I just gave you an order to do it." He reluctantly completed the task, but then told my superiors about the incident, both my fellow MK3 (he was also there,) and I were called to the rec deck, they asked what happened, we both said exactly what happened, then they asked which one of us said to do it because the E2 "was a non-rate" and "I'm a petty officer?" They thought my fellow MK3 was the one who said it because he seems like the type to say something like that, but I owned up to it and said I did. They were both surprised, but none the less, I got chewed out about it. Looking back I should have phrased my order differently, without using my frustration, but I didn't. I did end up apologizing to the E2, because yes he was questioning a lawful order, but given the overall circumstances, I was a little bit out of line by pulling rank to get him to fall in line.
We were all having a bad day, and I should have held my tongue and explained why he was given that task differently. If you are a new leader, take my experience as an example of what not to do in such a situation. Yes I could have argued that I was in the right, and the E2 was in violation of UCMJ for his actions, but at the end of the day, we are all humans. We all still have bad days, and that's not a hill I was willing to die on, I just wanted to swallow my pride and make things right with the E2. I still have a lot to learn about leading others, and therefore I would appreciate any constructive feedback anyone has on this incident.
We were all having a bad day, and I should have held my tongue and explained why he was given that task differently. If you are a new leader, take my experience as an example of what not to do in such a situation. Yes I could have argued that I was in the right, and the E2 was in violation of UCMJ for his actions, but at the end of the day, we are all humans. We all still have bad days, and that's not a hill I was willing to die on, I just wanted to swallow my pride and make things right with the E2. I still have a lot to learn about leading others, and therefore I would appreciate any constructive feedback anyone has on this incident.
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All my 21 years of service I had my fare share of this and it was corrected on the spot. However on my 21st year I had one to buck up and he said "You can't order me to do that task" I replied "I asked you first and you reject, then I ordered you to do it and you still rejected to do it. So I gave a Lawful Order to do the task" He went to the area where the task was to be done and he wasn't there. Then I got called to the 1st SGT's office. 1st SGT said I can't do that after I explained the situation and my self. 1st said "Don't let it happen again. I said "It won't" and went directly to Personnel Office and submitted my Retirement Papers. Not dealing with these snot nosed snowflakes that is still tied to Mommy's Apron Strings. I even had a WOC Packet in at that time.
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I forgot to mention sometimes people fight back because of health concerns but usually it's just a dominance competition and they are fully able to compete.
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Make him do crossfit while you tell him how he is supposed to behave and why he needs to be that way. That's how I learned. I never purposely messed up ever again. I still got smoked though because I was still in the process of becoming a soldier and that's how it works...made no room for error. Tight ship.
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Is say as an NCO and now with over 20 years experience and a “Lieutenant” in a paramilitary organization, calm and cool is unequivocally how is react. I’ve seen way too much and have maybe an “ol’ man” attitude toward this. My reaction would be something like this, PFC So and So, if you would be so kind to accompany me after formation, I would love to hear your concerns on this matter in a private setting, ( never showing any overreacting emotion). If Mr PFC discussed this manner rationally, I would calmly and assertively inform him that he will suffer punishment befitting his insubordination and also make 100% clear he will never, not ever have a similar issue in the future! This is the Ol’ Man approach, being Old and having the utmost respect of the rest of the formation, this will almost always be “enough”. If the PFC reacts very emotionally he will see a dark side he will never want to see again, but it will be done in private, (this is also the confidence that comes with leading men for over 25 years in both the military and paramilitary organizations.
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The only one that did that to me, spent three days on bread and water in the brig.
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