Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
I would as I have in the past put him in the front leaning rest position. Then, tell he to repeat his comments so that the boots on the ground can better understand him. Afterwhich, order him to recover and asked him if he had any further comments to make to the boots on the ground.
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I would do the same as what I would expect being an E2 smart mouth myself. I would and have put him/her in the front leaning rest position so he/she could more clearly explain to our feet. Had him repeat his comments in front leaning rest position. Then have him recover and asked him if he had any further comments
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Oh how I miss the good old days of the sixties. In basic a DI could and did take out instant reprisals against anyone who disobeyed or didn't do the task at hand to the DI's satisfaction. A swift but subdued kick in the balls, a crack across his head, a kick in the ass, eatthos ebutts on the ground. give me the dying cock roach position til I tell you to move. 50, 75 or even a 100 push-ups.
Cruel and painful as shit but you know what? Those guys that had to go into action knew what they were doing. Most of my basic and AIT groups were about 90% OCS guys heading off to the 90 day wonder schools. The lessons were learned. in todays pansy military that all would be unthinkable and it's too bad too. I got bounced around a few times and never once held it agains the DI's.
Cruel and painful as shit but you know what? Those guys that had to go into action knew what they were doing. Most of my basic and AIT groups were about 90% OCS guys heading off to the 90 day wonder schools. The lessons were learned. in todays pansy military that all would be unthinkable and it's too bad too. I got bounced around a few times and never once held it agains the DI's.
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Hard and fast nail him right there and show there is no room for attitude
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Back in the “old Corps infantry Vietnam days” crap ya I said it …………..we would have thumped his ass and put him on point for several operations. FNG sometimes are a pain in the ass, but like all of us everyone needs to learn and trust me, being a FNG on point will teach you quickly both to do as ordered and do it without hesitation.
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Under the stated conditions, I place him on report and let the military's justice system work, with hopefully the little twerp is taken to NJP, Captain's Mast-Navy. It happened in front of the troops, in formation, you really have no choice. The E2 hasn't earned any latitude in this instance. One thing is don't get in a pissing contest in front of the troops, when you do you lose that one.
You're in charge act like you know that.
You're in charge act like you know that.
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In the army we have DA4856. which is a counseling form. Not sure what other branches have as an equivalent. Its a good place to start and creates a paper trail for legal to chapter them out of the military should things get that far. Anyways, I'd counsel them for insubordination and disrespect toward an NCO(two separate counselings). Both counselings would summarize how miserable their lives can get and inform them that the behavior, if uncorrected can and will result in their discharge from the military. Done in private of course.
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Holy bats@#t Batman...let's just say that even if they had only been under my command for a few days they would already know that this was a quick surefire way to be on a fast rope to hate life ville. I believed in one thing more than anything else as a leader and as a soldier. Obedience to all orders unless they were illegal or put someone in unacceptable danger during peacetime. ALL my soldiers as well as all the soldiers within my unit knew this to be true so for one of my own to disobey would probably get a few exasperating remarks from all different ranks in my Platoon
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First of Chief (OC) George Martin how would you handle it? Second, I would hope that a senior E5 in any service would instinctively know exactly how to handle it!
After I relate what it was like on my first ship in the Navy I’ll tell you what I would have done.
Assigned to the Deck Force on my first ship, the USS SPERRY (AS12) a WWII Sub Tender, we had a daily routine. We were up 30 minutes before reveille on the wooden weather decks sweeping and swabbing. If it didn’t meet the Division LPO (a BM1/E6) we did it again, sweep and swab, no complaining allowed. The Deck Department had a Torpedoman 3rd Class (TM3/E4) who was the Department “Enforcer”. He was, as nicknames in the service go, called Tiny. At 6’5” and 245# he was anything but Tiny. If you were sent down to get a tool from Tiny you came back with the tool. If you not up to snuff the BM2 or BM1 would say “Go see Tiny” a not pleasant trip you’d have. I don’t know anyone getting sent to see Tiny the second time!
You can not do that today; although if his peers suffered along with him, like liberty delayed and his squad mates knew why they were working 2 extra hours it wouldn’t take long before the peer pressure would probably set him straight. It’s an excellent way to build teamwork. I can honestly say in my 30 years I’ve only had one person push me close to the limit. I didn’t take it to kindly when a E5 was claiming to all who would listen that he could do my job better then I. Unfortunately when you’re a CWO4 on your twilight tour of duty and on a 270’ long cutter the word gets back to you in a hurry! He ended up appealing the semi-annual evaluations I gave him; and I was asked by the XO (my boss) if I would change a couple of them instead of having it go to the CO…I did; but point made.
After I relate what it was like on my first ship in the Navy I’ll tell you what I would have done.
Assigned to the Deck Force on my first ship, the USS SPERRY (AS12) a WWII Sub Tender, we had a daily routine. We were up 30 minutes before reveille on the wooden weather decks sweeping and swabbing. If it didn’t meet the Division LPO (a BM1/E6) we did it again, sweep and swab, no complaining allowed. The Deck Department had a Torpedoman 3rd Class (TM3/E4) who was the Department “Enforcer”. He was, as nicknames in the service go, called Tiny. At 6’5” and 245# he was anything but Tiny. If you were sent down to get a tool from Tiny you came back with the tool. If you not up to snuff the BM2 or BM1 would say “Go see Tiny” a not pleasant trip you’d have. I don’t know anyone getting sent to see Tiny the second time!
You can not do that today; although if his peers suffered along with him, like liberty delayed and his squad mates knew why they were working 2 extra hours it wouldn’t take long before the peer pressure would probably set him straight. It’s an excellent way to build teamwork. I can honestly say in my 30 years I’ve only had one person push me close to the limit. I didn’t take it to kindly when a E5 was claiming to all who would listen that he could do my job better then I. Unfortunately when you’re a CWO4 on your twilight tour of duty and on a 270’ long cutter the word gets back to you in a hurry! He ended up appealing the semi-annual evaluations I gave him; and I was asked by the XO (my boss) if I would change a couple of them instead of having it go to the CO…I did; but point made.
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PO1 Kevin Dougherty
Yea that stuff definitely got around fast in the CG. Units were/are way too small for it not to. As the electronics LPO, I had an issue with a certain Ensign, the type who give JOs a bad name. He tried to give one of my guys crap for doing what I sent him to do. I went to talk to him and was told that he wanted it done differently. He was mistaken, and refused to answer to me, so I went to the Ops O and let him deal. By the time I got back to 1st class quarters ever PO1 there knew I had had another run in with Mr. U. (Yes it wasn't the first, nor was I the first to have such an encounter. The fact that Mr. B -- yes, that was what we all called him. He had a Polish name that no one got right, so he told us just call him Mr.B -- looked up and said "What did he do this time?" Should say something.) I Later heard from a shipmate that he was six and out, never making it past JG.
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Had a case sinikar to thus when I was stilk a Pv2 while at Benning for jump school. There was another Pv2 in another squad, same platoon though, that mouthed off to one of tge Jump Masters before a training jump. That night Pv2 Dipshit was the proud receiver of an old fashioned "blanket party" Pv2 Shitbird went crying to the Top about what happened, He was unable to identify who the responsible partues were though. Somehow the Jump Master did manage ti figure out who the culprits were though. He calked us to the side that afternoon after trainibg and thanked us for straightening Pv2 Dipshit out though, with a warning to never do it again. Pv2 Dipshit straightened his act out and gradyated 3rd in our class from jump school. I ran into him again a few years later when I was at Bragg for a joint training exercise. He was in medical hold pending a medical discharge where he broke both his legs, his back and one arm during a bad jump.
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Normally I was always taught to praise in public and chastise in private however, in this case when you are blatantly disrespected in front of your squad you need to squash it right there with everyone listening. This sends the message to all hands that you are in charge and here's what the consequences are if you want to challenge me. Leave no room for interpretation.
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Low crawl through the mud pit, than roll over and do flutter kicks... till I’m tired!
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My Company Commander hit me square in the chest and knocked the wind out of me for replying to his question with "yeah", instead of "Yes, Sir."
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