Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
The initial reaction would be to get control of the Soldier and his behavior. Once that is taken care of, I would have the Soldier, his or her Platoon Sergeant and Team Chief come to my office. I want to know what is going on with the Soldier. Is this a normal thing that this Soldier does or is this a first offense?
The Soldier has to be taught that under no circumstances will you disrespect your leaders. Discipline has to be instilled in the Soldier and his/her corrective training will focus on building that character trait. This is a great teaching and mentoring moment that if handle correctly will send a message to all that were involved. We all have things that come up and sometimes boil over, but it doesn’t give us the right to throw discipline out the window.
The Soldier has to be taught that under no circumstances will you disrespect your leaders. Discipline has to be instilled in the Soldier and his/her corrective training will focus on building that character trait. This is a great teaching and mentoring moment that if handle correctly will send a message to all that were involved. We all have things that come up and sometimes boil over, but it doesn’t give us the right to throw discipline out the window.
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Been exposed to worse... Ft. Leonard Wood, MO late October 1967. I was an E-1 wearing one of those E-5 sleeves after finishing Leadership School and was assigned to help the E-6 Platoon Sergeant during AIT. Two days later that E-6 received orders to go to the NCO Academy - somewhere unknown to me. I was told to move into his room and do his job. My first day I had to send 3 to KP and 2 to clean the barracks. I got up before Revelee, posted 5 names on the wall and went for an early breakfast before the lights were on. Returning to my barracks in the dark I turned a corner to my building and 5 black trainees appeared from out of the bushes and surrounded me. I knew the tallest guy Parker, who washed out of leadership school, but the others I didn't know. They told me that they were not going to do the posted jobs and I better find someone else, or they were going to kick my ass.
Just what I needed on my first day. So, the only thing I could think of was to go down with style. I said that I didn't expect that they were sissys and would have the honor to take me on one-at-a-time, so I said "You're first Parker, then I pointed to the second biggest guy and I said you're #2, then the next tallest - #3 then #4 and then I turned to the shortest guy and I remember blurting out, something like "If I'm still standing when I'm done with #4, you better hope you can out run me shorty, because your ass will be mine.
As I started closing in on Parker I said, I hate to have to do this to you guys, because you will all be in the brigade doing shittier labor than what I've assigned to you this morning and I'll be done with you one way or the other. But the funny thing is that I didn't pick you because of your race. Witch of you are in the top bunk at the end of a row? EVERY ONE OF YOU IS. Tomorrow the guys below you will be selected because I don't know names yet, but I can remember which bunks come next.
Then I said "So let's go Parker either get this thing started, or go back to the barracks and prepare for KP."
Sure, Parker very well may have kicked my ass by himself. We never found out. These 5 guys became a sort of posse for me and became my "enforcers" any time anyone gave me shit... just by supporting whatever I said and giving anyone who didn't want to comply "dirty looks" that made them reconsider. It was epic.
Morale of the story: Stand your ground. A bloody face demands more respect than a pink stripe down your back. You can take that to the bank.
Just what I needed on my first day. So, the only thing I could think of was to go down with style. I said that I didn't expect that they were sissys and would have the honor to take me on one-at-a-time, so I said "You're first Parker, then I pointed to the second biggest guy and I said you're #2, then the next tallest - #3 then #4 and then I turned to the shortest guy and I remember blurting out, something like "If I'm still standing when I'm done with #4, you better hope you can out run me shorty, because your ass will be mine.
As I started closing in on Parker I said, I hate to have to do this to you guys, because you will all be in the brigade doing shittier labor than what I've assigned to you this morning and I'll be done with you one way or the other. But the funny thing is that I didn't pick you because of your race. Witch of you are in the top bunk at the end of a row? EVERY ONE OF YOU IS. Tomorrow the guys below you will be selected because I don't know names yet, but I can remember which bunks come next.
Then I said "So let's go Parker either get this thing started, or go back to the barracks and prepare for KP."
Sure, Parker very well may have kicked my ass by himself. We never found out. These 5 guys became a sort of posse for me and became my "enforcers" any time anyone gave me shit... just by supporting whatever I said and giving anyone who didn't want to comply "dirty looks" that made them reconsider. It was epic.
Morale of the story: Stand your ground. A bloody face demands more respect than a pink stripe down your back. You can take that to the bank.
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Depends on the color of their skin. Are they LGBQT? If yes, nothing.
WASP? Discipline to the highest possible sentence.
WASP? Discipline to the highest possible sentence.
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As has been said at Ft. Benning for "millenia" (it will always be Benning to many of us), the PVT would be pushing Georgia down to Florida.
To be honest though, if the PVT goes so far as to tell you to choose someone else, he/she has been failed by their previous chain of command & I seriously question their drill SGT.
This has to be nipped in the bud quickly! If it happens a second time they would be coming in on a Sat for PT and remedial training.
To be honest though, if the PVT goes so far as to tell you to choose someone else, he/she has been failed by their previous chain of command & I seriously question their drill SGT.
This has to be nipped in the bud quickly! If it happens a second time they would be coming in on a Sat for PT and remedial training.
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Dismiss everyone except him and his squad leader. He needs to explain his actions, if he does with respect, accept it. But there still need consequences for his actions. Not only for his understanding but for all that observed the action. If he still has attitude, smoke him!
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Stand them at attention and explain to them that this is not the civilian world and the they work for the military and they are to obey orders. If not they will be written up. And explain to them what happens to them when they get so many write ups.
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Ha! Do the old school thing: Punish everyone else. Explain why they are receiving correcting action. They will make swift correction of his insubordination.
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SGT Chuck Freiman
Nah. I don't believe in this mass punishment shit. Only the guilty should be punished. To use a complex psychological phrase, smoke the E2's ass until the lesson is learned.
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PO2 Dean Wilder
I agree with Chuck. It pissed me off to get punished for some dipshitz that I served with and made me disrespect the person handing out the punishment. Lazy. There is ALWAYS something needing painted, shined, cleaned, scraped, peened, buffed, polished .... on a ship. Especially the ships bell; out in public and everyone is allowed to comment on how well they are doing the cleaning.
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I suggest immediate correction with emphasis on military bearing, being a team member and team cohesion. I further suggest such corrective action be presented at first as an unemotional/unreactive teaching moment for the entire unit. Expressing that the lack of team cohesion is always selfish in motivating reasoning and such behavior eventually will get someone seriously injured or killed. No team can or will trust and/or embrace selfish, self-centered members. If the enlisted person still insists on refusal and insubordinant attitude, I would ask the individual to address the Senior Drill as well as the unit to explain exactly why they are refusing and how they feel their insubordinant manner of behavior is correct. If attitude persists and without a reasonable explanation (i.e. fear or no understand of how to complete task). I suggest the next step would be to issue this enlisted person a direct, legal order to carry out said task. Failure to do so in any fashion other than in a sharp, professional military manner - Article 15, would then be most appropriate.
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I retired from Army Infantry in 2003. If this happened to me I would handle this situation immediately and harshly with extreme prejudice. This POS would have become my pet project and would suffer world class Physical Training to the extent that he would be traumatized and regret he ever lost his discipline. I’d do every bit of PT with him FYI. And after the hour’s session of PT, he’d be supervised to complete the original work task he was ordered to do. Discipline and immediate response to orders is what is necessary to complete the mission. RLTW!
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