Posted on Mar 12, 2022
I am 1LT and my friend is SGT. We are in same division and base but in different brigade. Can we still hangout together and drink beer?
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I am 1LT and my friend is SGT. We are in same division but different brigade. Can we still hangout and drink beer? Does it consider fraternization even if we are from different brigade. My wife and his spouse are friend too. Please advise
Friends
SGT
LT
Fraternization
Posted 3 y ago
Responses: 45
23
23
0
While I was still in, as a SFC, I was pretty good friends with a CPT (now MAJ, still serving), both AD.
The first three times I met him, I knew he was in the Army, but did not know his rank. We met through our spouses. This is covered under the fraternization rules, and is OK (I did a LOT of checking before I allowed our friendship to continue). At the time, I was assigned to Installation HQ (G3) and he was in the S3 of one of the subordinate BNs. In two years, we saw each other once in a professional capacity. We were both completely able to put aside our personal relationship and act professionally. A casual observer would not have known we knew each other at all. That is the goal, and intent of fraternization policy. In addition to this, I saw him three or four times around base (passing each other at PX, chow hall, etc.) Again, aside from maybe a bit warmer of a smile when giving the greeting of the day, there was no indication or acknowledgement of our personal relationship.
The relationship becomes problematic when 1) that SGT becomes assigned under you, 2) that SGT is assigned to a position which requires a working relationship with you (i.e. you are the S1 and he is a Orderly Room NCO) AND your personal relationship affects your professional dealings, or 3) your personal relationship affects others at either of your units (i.e. the SGT becomes "overly familiar" with Officers, or the SGT sees you at the PX and addresses you by first name, thereby underming your authority with others, or - and I have seen this one - You stop by and "pull rank" to grab SGT out of his "normal duties" to hang out and grab lunch.)
If you avoid those three pitfalls, you should be fine. Remember, keep it professional at all times. Even when off duty and in "public."
The first three times I met him, I knew he was in the Army, but did not know his rank. We met through our spouses. This is covered under the fraternization rules, and is OK (I did a LOT of checking before I allowed our friendship to continue). At the time, I was assigned to Installation HQ (G3) and he was in the S3 of one of the subordinate BNs. In two years, we saw each other once in a professional capacity. We were both completely able to put aside our personal relationship and act professionally. A casual observer would not have known we knew each other at all. That is the goal, and intent of fraternization policy. In addition to this, I saw him three or four times around base (passing each other at PX, chow hall, etc.) Again, aside from maybe a bit warmer of a smile when giving the greeting of the day, there was no indication or acknowledgement of our personal relationship.
The relationship becomes problematic when 1) that SGT becomes assigned under you, 2) that SGT is assigned to a position which requires a working relationship with you (i.e. you are the S1 and he is a Orderly Room NCO) AND your personal relationship affects your professional dealings, or 3) your personal relationship affects others at either of your units (i.e. the SGT becomes "overly familiar" with Officers, or the SGT sees you at the PX and addresses you by first name, thereby underming your authority with others, or - and I have seen this one - You stop by and "pull rank" to grab SGT out of his "normal duties" to hang out and grab lunch.)
If you avoid those three pitfalls, you should be fine. Remember, keep it professional at all times. Even when off duty and in "public."
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CPT Richard Fematt
I don't see it as a problem, you know your responsibilities and the lines not to cross. As a CO of my unit, I had no problem in joining my soldiers for an after-hour drink off post or at one of my soldier's homes. We also spent many days in hotels to attend unit training and it was normal to get together after training, they knew not challenge me and my authority, as I would take disciplinary action. Some of my best friends were the SNCOS and NCOS, and even after retirement they are still my friends.
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SFC Barbara Layman
As a SFC, I was once assigned to the same organization as my LTC brother-in-law. He and my sister married while he was a ROTC Cadet before his commissioning as a 2LT.
In the work environment, he was always Col or LTC depending on the scenario, and I was always SGT Layman. We didn't discuss family activities in such a way that they would have linked us. No preo-planning, it just happened that way.
One afternoon, about 10 months after my arrival, his wife stopped at my desk to say 'hi' on her way to his office. It wasn't until that day that anyone had a clue we were related. The BN CDR considered himself to have been caught completely off guard because he had not been made aware of our relationship earlier.
I'm sure this isn't the first time such an occurrence has happened.
One just has to remember the environment in which you are engaged and keep interaction at the proper perspective.
In the work environment, he was always Col or LTC depending on the scenario, and I was always SGT Layman. We didn't discuss family activities in such a way that they would have linked us. No preo-planning, it just happened that way.
One afternoon, about 10 months after my arrival, his wife stopped at my desk to say 'hi' on her way to his office. It wasn't until that day that anyone had a clue we were related. The BN CDR considered himself to have been caught completely off guard because he had not been made aware of our relationship earlier.
I'm sure this isn't the first time such an occurrence has happened.
One just has to remember the environment in which you are engaged and keep interaction at the proper perspective.
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First off, being an Officer and likely future commander, you're going to want to get real familiar with DA Pam 600-35. It has all kinds of examples of relationships, so it's pretty clear.
Being the in RC you're totally fine. Even on active duty it wouldn't draw any attention for two spouse to be friends, hang out, and have husbands of different ranks.
Being the in RC you're totally fine. Even on active duty it wouldn't draw any attention for two spouse to be friends, hang out, and have husbands of different ranks.
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1LT (Join to see)
What if two spouses post their picture on facebook and someone reports to the commander??
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It would/could be considered fraternization. If you want the full scoop, hit up JAG.
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SGT Karan Kemberling
Just the fact that the question is asks leads me to believe further education and seeking guidance from jag is necessary. Tread lightly
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