Posted on Jun 12, 2019
I am being told to go to PT by the command on only 4-5 hours of sleep. As a junior enlisted, how do I solve this problem?
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We have a new 1SG and new commander. The 1SG noticed one day that only 5 people in the whole company showed up to PT. Now he put out to all the platoon Sergeants that everyone must show up to PT at either the 0530 formation or the 1600 formation.
However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.
I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.
As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.
How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.
I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.
As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.
How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
Company Commander
Physical Training
Army Regulations
Policy
Edited 6 y ago
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 1688
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I call BS. No command for a medical specialist is keeping you at work until midnight and mandating only 5.5 hours of sleep. Probably poor time management on your part. Send me a Private message with your commanders info and i will call them to discuss if this is truly the case.
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SSG Robert Webster
This is NCO business. Why as a LTC would you make an offer to interfere prior to action on previous advice being taken? How would you have perceived the call or email when you were a commander?
I know that your first PSG and 1SG in C Company surely taught you better than that. I am sure that they did since you subsequently went on to the Ranger Regiment. Did you know that one of your predecessors as C Company XO was GEN Dan Allyn? And yes, I was in C Company; though it was C 2/508th when I and GEN Allyn were there.
I know that your first PSG and 1SG in C Company surely taught you better than that. I am sure that they did since you subsequently went on to the Ranger Regiment. Did you know that one of your predecessors as C Company XO was GEN Dan Allyn? And yes, I was in C Company; though it was C 2/508th when I and GEN Allyn were there.
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COL (Join to see)
SSG Robert Webster thanks for the great comment. Short of saying I was calling a bluff and to welcome additional comments, I will offer this.
If anything that happens in the organization impacts the climate and ultimately the culture is truly NCO business and this is happening in the formation, then the NCOs did not do their jobs effectively. All NCO business at the end of the day, is Officer business since we are the ones that are responsible for everything that happens and fails to happen in the organization. Training calendars are approved by the commander. If I were a young captain and our training and work day were putting people at risk because of lack of sleep, my 1SG would bring thay to me during planning and we would make the correction. As for a call or email from a senior officer to me as a commander. I am perhaps humble enough to recieve help. I would be shocked initially that my NCOs didn't bring this up to me as an issue. To me this is about soldier safety. I will throw the question back to you, where are the subordinate leaders/NCOs and if this is your business are we allowing this and putting soldiers at risk?
GEN Allyn is exception as are all of the now senior leaders I have had the pleasrue if serving for. In the regiment and 82nd, we didn't have these issues because of how structured out time was. RLTW!
If anything that happens in the organization impacts the climate and ultimately the culture is truly NCO business and this is happening in the formation, then the NCOs did not do their jobs effectively. All NCO business at the end of the day, is Officer business since we are the ones that are responsible for everything that happens and fails to happen in the organization. Training calendars are approved by the commander. If I were a young captain and our training and work day were putting people at risk because of lack of sleep, my 1SG would bring thay to me during planning and we would make the correction. As for a call or email from a senior officer to me as a commander. I am perhaps humble enough to recieve help. I would be shocked initially that my NCOs didn't bring this up to me as an issue. To me this is about soldier safety. I will throw the question back to you, where are the subordinate leaders/NCOs and if this is your business are we allowing this and putting soldiers at risk?
GEN Allyn is exception as are all of the now senior leaders I have had the pleasrue if serving for. In the regiment and 82nd, we didn't have these issues because of how structured out time was. RLTW!
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SSG Robert Webster
COL (Join to see) - It appears that the soldiers first line supervisor was not effective in keeping the 1SG informed or did not tell the 1SG the issue.
Since it appears that the 1SG is new and is not fully aware of the situation it may be both the NCO leader and the 1SG together at fault here.
Since it appears that the 1SG is new and is not fully aware of the situation it may be both the NCO leader and the 1SG together at fault here.
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SGT Mike Churchill
COL (Join to see) we the NCO's realize that this us a non- issue. There is no sleep deprivation going on. The soldier us just complaining because they don't want to do PT. The SM has plenty of down time to get anything they need to do done and get their rest.
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You say effectively and proficiently but mention the word argument. Consider the right answer as being one that will benefit your sleep but ruin your image. Was your section the 6 people who showed at 5:30? I wish I had problems this small both while I was in and now while I’m out. I’m sick of everyone looking for regulations just to make life simple for themself, when regulations are meant to maintain structure, integrity, honesty, and discipline. Don’t be mad at your first sergeant, be mad at the knuckleheads who screwed things up for you by not showing up at morning formation. Oh and if you really have to do something about this, bring it up to the first sergeant at the end of formation in front of everyone. That’s what a leader would do. Instead of passing a note or whispering on the side. Be blunt bold, loud and clear. No matter what, the first sergeant and everyone in formation might respect you more for opening your mouth. Even if you find a regulation, leave it out. That will only look bad.
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Cpl Mark Oresko
[~508389:SFC Casey - sorry if my comment was confusing but the point I was trying to make was that if these are the only two formations then he and his fellow no show-erz should accept this as a punishment earned for failing to show up for formation. The final portion of my opinion wasn’t to put anyone on blast and not to mention regulations, but to either keep his mouth shut or say something. I like the idea of informing the platoon sgt and see if he can figure something out. But never mention regulations.
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SPC(P) (Join to see)
Cpl Mark Oresko Right, I get it. I mean I’ll try just being present for the next couple of weeks to see if it’s doable before.
I can see how showing a regulation can look bad in their perspective. I’m not mentioning a reg to be a smart ass but because of my rank I feel like it’s the only thing they might find valid. Idk if that makes sense
I can see how showing a regulation can look bad in their perspective. I’m not mentioning a reg to be a smart ass but because of my rank I feel like it’s the only thing they might find valid. Idk if that makes sense
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SPC(P) (Join to see)
Meaning that it’s going to look different when an Officer says there is an issue here vs a Junior enlisted saying there’s an issue.
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All active service members have the personal responsibility to maintain themselves at the highest level of physical fitness humanly possible. Because I can emphasize with your feelings of being between a rock and a hard place, may I offer two suggestions?
First, I feel that it might help if you do what you can to adapt to the circumstances while keeping in mind how daily PT will benefit you and your personal wellness. Hopefully, your immediate chain of command might be able to recognize that sleep deprivation undermines performance of duty.
Second, you might want to request an open-door meet with your leadership (showing initiative) and discuss how you might be able to maintain a high level of physical fitness individually while you fulfill your duties on the swing shift. I've been there (night radio watch 1800 to 0600, etc.).
I never enjoyed unit PT but accepted early on that it was beneficial. Also, I had the responsibility to lead by example. Now, at 72, I am grateful for all the NCOs who pushed me and my contemporaries even when I wanted to wimp out.
First, I feel that it might help if you do what you can to adapt to the circumstances while keeping in mind how daily PT will benefit you and your personal wellness. Hopefully, your immediate chain of command might be able to recognize that sleep deprivation undermines performance of duty.
Second, you might want to request an open-door meet with your leadership (showing initiative) and discuss how you might be able to maintain a high level of physical fitness individually while you fulfill your duties on the swing shift. I've been there (night radio watch 1800 to 0600, etc.).
I never enjoyed unit PT but accepted early on that it was beneficial. Also, I had the responsibility to lead by example. Now, at 72, I am grateful for all the NCOs who pushed me and my contemporaries even when I wanted to wimp out.
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Maybe at some point the command will let you do PT on your own and so long as you pass the PT test, everything will be ok. But until then, you have few options other than going to PT when the 1SG says be there.
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Is this really a question? Are you really crying about this? Youre in the Army, suck it up and drive on. Army owns you and your time. When time for ETS go to a career that you feel you will get enough sleep. And what kind of unit are you with where people just dont show up for formation? Armys gone soft these days.
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There are more than 8 hours between PT and the start of your shift. Start your day just before your shift work. Use the 5.5 hours between work and PT for your personal time. Go to PT, conduct hygiene, go to bed. Rinse and repeat. I know it sucks that your personal time would be between midnight and 0530. But it is what it is.
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We've all had hardships. This is the sort of situation where a soldier's supervisor should find a solution. Taking care of soldiers is part of being a leader. It's fine as a temporary thing. It's even fine if some sort of external factor makes it necessary long-term. But this sounds like a routine scheduling issue that could be worked out.
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SPC Davis,
You're working an eight-hour shift. You have sixteen hours to do whatever you want. Strike that! You have to do PT. So, you're down to 15 hours to do whatever you want. Manage your time, and you can find 6-8 hours for sleep. Even if you stayed up after work, did PT 0530-0700, bed at 0800 and up at 1400, that's six straight hours of sleep. As a bonus, you could get in a nap before PT. Or you could put that time to good use.
You're working an eight-hour shift. You have sixteen hours to do whatever you want. Strike that! You have to do PT. So, you're down to 15 hours to do whatever you want. Manage your time, and you can find 6-8 hours for sleep. Even if you stayed up after work, did PT 0530-0700, bed at 0800 and up at 1400, that's six straight hours of sleep. As a bonus, you could get in a nap before PT. Or you could put that time to good use.
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