Posted on Jun 12, 2019
SPC(P) Medical Laboratory Specialist
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We have a new 1SG and new commander. The 1SG noticed one day that only 5 people in the whole company showed up to PT. Now he put out to all the platoon Sergeants that everyone must show up to PT at either the 0530 formation or the 1600 formation.

However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.

I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.

As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.

How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
Edited 6 y ago
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SGT Roger Sharpnack
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I'm guessing that you're not an Airborne Ranger....
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MAJ Owner/Operator
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Suck it up troop, this is not camp. Definitely sounds like quibbling, if not whining. Move out and drive on.
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PO2 Floyd Fowler
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You should handle it by doing what your told it’s a MWF schedule... suck it up buttercup there are thousands doing your and doing it well with less sleep than that!
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SFC Melvin Brandenburg
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You have two options. 1st is to suck it up and do the first slot. 2nd is to negotiate an alternate time, but make sure you keep your word. If 2nd doesn't work, don't complain and just do it.
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LCDR Aerospace Engineering Duty, Maintenance (AMDO and AMO)
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5 y
Probably the simplest expression of the idea that actually recognizes that there is no need for this person to "Suck it up, buttercup" without even TRYING to remedy the issue.

I also agree with the need to keep one's word in this. If he does get an exemption, rising PT scores have a tendency to silence any misgivings over the issue.
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SSG Infantryman
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If you feel you're not getting adequate recovery time and it's affecting your physical well-being, bring it up to someone. The worst that can happen is that nothing changes. If your fatigue becomes a safety issue, then you're a liability. There isn't much in the way of specificity for RA soldiers in garrison though.

FM 22-51 Appendix A-9 states that while 6-8 hours of continuous sleep is preferred, They're only required to allow for a minimum of 4.

It is also stated in FM 6-22.5 Chapter 4:
Continuous operations are military operations with many pulses
of action every day and night, continuing for several days to weeks,
which require careful planning and resource allocation to give
everyone a minimum of 4 hours sleep in 24. (FM 22-51)

While this doesn't specify garrison, I wish you luck in getting that message across. It may be an easier task in your world than it is in mine.

TRADOC Regulation 350-6

(1) In garrison, IET Soldiers must have the opportunity for 7 hours of continuous sleep per night, unless the Soldier is scheduled for duty (for example, access control guard, or CQ runner). During field training, the length of the training day and time for sleep will vary based on tactical and other training requirements, as established in the appropriate POI. Commanders will ensure that the tactical framework of field training allows sufficient time for rest.

(2) In garrison, Soldiers are given at least 1 hour of preparation time each day to take care of personal needs.

Hope this helps with something.
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There are 16 hours between your shifts and you can only find time for 4-5 hours of sleep? What will you do if you’re assigned to a combat hospital on deployment? You may get less than that.
What I see is less of a PT problem and more of a you not wanting to adjust your sleep schedule problem. You want your free time to be during the daylight hours where you can socialize and have fun instead of having free time from 0001-0500. The problem is that the military does not conform to your schedule, you find a way to work around the military’s schedule. If you cannot figure this out, you do not deserve to be promote past your current rank.
There will be many times in your military career where sleep is a rare thing - why do you think soldiers can fall asleep anywhere? (even in the back of a deuce and a half) Your job is to learn to adapt and overcome.

Also, best way to learn things is to look them up. Instead of asking about Army Regulations - look them up yourself. You will be amazed at how much information you retain.
1SG Virgil Tibbs
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Working at strange hours and also conducting PT is a normal part of military life. Achmed, Ivan, and Charlie won't excuse you from combat because you lost some sleep, and your physical conditioning is as important as every other soldiers'. Your section, presumably has an NCO. Top and the CO expect their troops to PT but I doubt either of them really care when that takes place as long as it's quality training and it actually happens. Perhaps your NCO can ask Top to allow your section to conduct section PT at 1330. That would leave everyone time to shower and get to work by 1600.
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LTC Karen McKay
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Poor baby. Here's your binky--Mommy will bring you some hot cocoa.
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Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth
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Edited 5 y ago
From a Commander and First Sergeant perspective I understand the everyone comment and have everyone show up. However, that is a measurement with a micrometer marked with a crayon and cut with a chainsaw. The CC and the 1Sgt are right BUT they probably don't know the entire story. You probably need to work it through your platoon leader and up and see what happens.

NOW WITH THAT BEING SAID...you work 1600-0000. You get up for the 0530 PT formation for lets say an hour and that takes you to 0630 and you go back home. That leaves you 9.5 hours to rest up for your next shift AFTER the PT. I really don't see an issue here. There is plenty of time for you to rest (couple of hours prior to PT and 9+ hours after.)
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Lt Col Leslie Bryant
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You get no slack working in the hospital! Take it from a USAF nurse! I then went onto be an AFOSI Special Agent, Forensic Consultant and Defense Attache and got even less sleep typically 4-6 hrs. During 9/11, I was in Bosnia doing peacekeeping and went to 4 hrs of sleep for 3 months taking down Al Qaeda terrorists with Special Forces and supervising US Arabic translators translating seized materials and preparing briefings for the President. If you can survive on 4-6 hrs, it gets a lot worse as you rise in rank!!
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Capt Robert Myers
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Wow. Where are you stationed? Disneyland? We took naps in the Marines and found a wall to climb. What has happened to service to our country. Bo
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SGT Justin Anderson
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Wowie Batman! You're in the military now. Regulations state that soldiers can operate on 4 hours of non-consecutive sleep at minimum. They just have to allot time for you to rest. So in short, learn to manage your time properly so that you get proper rest the rest is out of your hands.
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LtCol Dennis Ivan
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Best bet is to see your NCOIC or Platoon Commander.
This sounds like the Co Cdr 1st Sgt have a time management and leadership issue.
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MSG Don Jones
MSG Don Jones
>1 y
No they don't the SP/4 does
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LtCol Dennis Ivan
LtCol Dennis Ivan
>1 y
MSG Don Jones Nope, if the company commander and 1stSgt are too stupid or incompetent to be taxing their people disproportionately for their own convenience thats on them. Its called being a good leader. And given this is a Spc. maybe a couple of years vs a 1stSgt with 15 or more and a Capt with 5 or more plus OCS etc I can guarantee who the failure is.
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MSG Don Jones
MSG Don Jones
>1 y
The SP/4 needs to follow the order then explain the problem to the CoC it will work it's self out. The CoC is exercising control of a unit that seems to need some. After control is gained the exceptions will be made. It works better than onesies and twosies. It always does and always will. It's called being and exceptionally good leader
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LtCol Dennis Ivan
LtCol Dennis Ivan
>1 y
MSG Don Jones no MSG, its whats called pathetic leaders and SNCOs that should have exited long ago. "Exceptional leaders" already understand their unit, how it functions, and the schedules of all their people. "Exceptional leaders" dont need a SPC to tell them they are f'd up. Just washed up SNCOs and COs that are too lazy and too arrogant to get out of their office except for that one time they interact with their unit for the entire day.
There is a reason you are a MSG and not a 1stSgt.
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CPL Joseph Langone
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If you can not handle this on 4 hours sleep What the hell will you do under combat conditions. For God sakes Your not in the GIRL SCOUTS
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SSG Elizabeth LeMere
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I agree with SFC Michael D., you are being prepared for battle at any given moment, you got this soldier!
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MSG Ricky Kammenga
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Sounds a little whinny to me...your in the army. suck it up soldier.
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SFC Cindy Bauman
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OH for pete's sake!!! Get deployed!! You will work for days on end with little sleep and your physical activity will go far beyond anything you do in PT!!!
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SSG Eric Blue
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Get off shift, nap for about two or three hours, get up, go to PT, get that $#!+ done, bed back down for at least four more hours. This is my suggestion to YOU only. Deal with this as best as you can while you have the opportunity to sleep because when you deploy, your hours will be insane! If it is something you cannot adapt to and overcome after giving it a FAIR and HONEST effort, this job may not be for you.
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SSG Red Hoffman
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Wawawa....no solution necessary. Live with it...or get out. Thank you for your service.
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SPC Juan Romero
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I don’t know what is your situation but when I was in, that was not an issue. However I was an 11B and sleep deprivation was part of the training
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