I am being told to go to PT by the command on only 4-5 hours of sleep. As a junior enlisted, how do I solve this problem?

Maybe you should say a prayer on your way to pt. A prayer of thanks for not being deployed living in a tent and not knowing who will shoot at you next.
The military regardless of branch or duty assignment makes demands on us that most would never accept.

I'm reminded of a common run cadence as I'm reading this question: "Don't fall out, you gotta DEAL with it!!" It's the Army Soldier. Sleep is something that you may not have control of for the entire time you are in the Army, but you can control your level of motivation. Use your chain of command and address the issue. If your command cannot accommodate your request, use your resiliency skills and go all out during PT. This is what we signed up for. Drink water and adjust fire!

The way you solve this issue is to grow up. I am a veteran and sleep is a luxury you dont always get. If you cannot handle the rigors of the last watch imagine getting the midwatch and 0000-0400 and still having a full day. Now imagine that in a war zone with someone who believes they get to go to heaven for putting a bullet in you. Think he is going to stop trying to kill you because its nappy time and you want your juice box and blankie? Please let me know who your recruiter was so I can go and slap him.

So your section is 1600-0000 but no one has 0000-0800 shift? Like others have said, not guaranteed 8 hours sleep in the military. But op has more of a chance than most deployed personnel for a total of 8 hours sleep, even if it's a broken 8 hours

I listened to a talk recently given by one of the CEOs at AT&T where she discussed her Seven "C"s of leadership. One of them was Compassion or empathy. I served for 30 years in the Army with two combat tours in Iraq. Through all those years I found that I received more dedication and commitment from my Soldiers through being an understanding leader than by beating them up. Don't misconstrue my meaning of compassion by assuming I coddled my Soldiers. I expected a great deal out of them, but I usually didn't have to demand or even ask it of them because they demanded it of themselves knowing that they had leadership that didn't make unreasonable demands and also had their backs when necessary. Making the personal choice to stay late at the club on your downtime rather than sleeping is vastly different than not having the time to sleep due to mission demands. Granted there are times when operational requirements will cause Soldiers to have to make do with less sleep, but to wantonly require it can cause unnecessary issues from sleep deprivation. Fit, well rested Soldiers are better prepared to handle demanding deployments that require long shifts with little sleep. Depriving them of sleep leading up to deployments only breaks down their systems and makes them less capable of dealing with the stresses they will face. Leadership needs to learn how to find solutions to problems that don't punish those that are doing what is required of them. One-size-fits-all punishment displays a lack of effort by leaders.

As for how to approach the problem, I would suggest trying to come with an alternative plan to offer. If the unit PT levels are below standard, that is likely the underlying issue that the 1SG is trying to resolve. If your section is part of the reason standards are low, that is a concern. Additionally, if your score is below par, that is an issue as well. Find out what the real reason behind the mandatory attendance requirement is and address that. Since everyone in your section is working these extended hours, is there someone in your section that could come up with a physical fitness plan and the section be accountable for conducting its own PT? You need to come to leadership with an alternative that will meet their underlying concerns. You don't want to go to leadership with a complaint without an understanding of what the true issue is and suggestions with ways to resolve it. The attitude of "suck it up" doesn't prepare you on how to be a good leader yourself. Take this opportunity to learn how to solve problems.

Does your commander and/or 1st Shirt also have input to the duty roster? If so, ask if you can adjust your shift schedule to 1500 to 2300 to better accomodate your commander's PT requirement - seems as though there may be a disconnect in management with your unit and that chain of command thing can work to your benefit when used as designed - Problem solved.

you show up for PT first of all 2nd if you feel you have a valid complaint run it through your chain of command. life in the military is very simple follow orders and use your chain of command and always know your command regulations and directives it would behove you

I think the 1SG made a “shooting from the hip” decision out of anger because of lack of participation in PT. Therefore, the 1SG should re-evaluate their PT schedule. Do they want it to be accomplished before duty starts or ends? 0530 and 1600 sounds like optional times for day shift. If it’s the former, then the 2d PT session (intended for 2d shift) should start at 1430 so the troops can shower and be ready to work at 1600.

I know this is a long paragraph a doesn’t answer your question. I’d hate to be in your shoes but the best advice I can offer is use your chain of command. Start with your immediate supervisor and work your way up.

I'm curious, which Army hospital are you working at? The last time I did PT at an Army hospital that early in the morning was 2005 at Walter Reed. Bear in mind I was coming from a Combat Support Hospital from Iraq so my attitude was different. I loved it and I hated the whining from the troops who didn't want to be at PT so you'll get no sympathy from me. To answer your question, there is no regulation that covers what time physical fitness should be performed, however; AR 350-1 and FM 21-20 discuss commander's responsibilities as it pertains to physical fitness. Additionally, FM 21-10, Chapter 3, discusses the leadership's responsibility for fitness in a field/combat environment. One point to consider is that a soldier must have 3-4 hours of continuous sleep to perform 24hrs or more continuous operations. Let that sink in for a moment. If you can't handle it now, take SFC Davila advice and seek another profession. Given this Great Resignation that's occuring in America it wouldn't be hard for you to find another job. The solution is for you to manage your time better, get some rest, and be ready to perform PT when the time comes. The more you perform PT the better you become conditioned and you won't find yourself tired now go do some PT. Hooah!

Sounds like you best obey your command. Until you can determine a solution. As a cmdr I always had an open door policy. If your going to go discuss it with your Commander, that is your right but inform your ENTIRE Chain of Command (CoC) that you are going to discuss the PT situation with your commander. If your cmdr has an open door policy than it is your legal right you see her/him, if any NCO stops you take note of the time the day and exactly what was said. However, b4 going to your commander you should try to discuss the situation with your CoC. But FIRST come up with a solution to your problem. Now when you do see your commander you better have a solution that will work. As a soldier in todays military you are expected to think act take the initiative to solve a problem in the absense of leadership.
You really do not supply enough information. As your commander if you presented this problem to me the very first thing I would ask you is to see your work schedule. My next question would be to ask you what you recommend. If your standing there with nothing your going to look like a child but if your prepared than you look strong. Also, check and see what other soldiers in your command are in the same situation. The surgeon general reccomends 7 hrs of sleep, work from there. Let us know how it went!

Patrick Mulloney
LTC USAR (RET)

Just try it before You claim can’t do it!….

LoL in my experience either you suck and leaving a ton out, crappy leadership, or maybe being lower enlisted you have no clue what is going on upper echelon…

Time for your PLTSGT to step up. It’s their responsibility to discuss and press home w/ the 1SG, the needs of the troops to a workable solution. What was your last APFT score? If a pass, then this will support the PLTSGT argument. Ultimately, it’s PT until an alternative solution is approved

Sounds like you will be doing a split shift sleeping..or maybe do laundry untill time for PT ...go home after PT eat some thing and go to bed..wake up eat go to work...you have now become a day sleeper..we have all done that very do able

Buck up, I would have to do PT after working doing 56 hours in a 72 hour period. Hell I would show up for PT after being out all night drinking.

But if it really that big of a deal bring it up with your NCO to send up the coc. Or Invite the 1st to follow your section for a 1600 to 0000 shift.

Look, you’re a Lab tech that works in a Hospital providing patient care services. The people on here saying that you should be able to do your job with 3-4 hours sleep are just talking out their rears. Let them see you mess up a lab draw, miss a stick on their dependents, contaminate or mix up test orders or results etc.
Your Command should understand that you work 16-00 and either set up a 1330 PT session for Night Shift or some sort of exception. Maybe they are not tracking your shift, never assume. Good luck.

I realize this is an old post, but I'm surprised and how many "Suck it up, buttercup" responses there are here. What the OP has highlighted is a bad command decision and she would like to know how she can bring it to the attention of her superiors, who may not realize the effect it has on her particular section, in a way that is constructive. What does rolling with it teach her as a future leader? If there is a reason for the two times, then her NCO should give it to her straight. Perhaps she should in the end suck it up, but she should feel comfortable bringing what she sees as a problem for her section to their attention.

For those who don't see it as a problem, I ask: What is the benefit of making a whole hospital section do PT 5.5 hours after they end their shift? This would be akin to the command requiring PT at 2230 for those working a standard day shift. I imagine there is also a 0000 to 0800 shift as well, which would be similar in effect, if not worse. What sense does it make? There is a time and a place for pushing your people to perform on reduced sleep for limited durations. But the only apparent reason for doing so here is because they want PT do be done at one of two time slots? And with no end in sight? Even if the section was failing to keep up physical regs on their own, this would not make sense. Have the night shifts PT as a section before or after their shift, just like what the command is offering everyone else. If they can't trust the NCO's of that section to do that, then the command has bigger problems than attending PT.

Read up on FM 7-22, recommend a second pt formation for people on your shift, and volunteer to lead the sessions yourself.

Has anyone talked to the 1SG?

In this particular case (specifically), you have an open door policy with your CSM. Am sure s/he would ensure you get the proper amount of sleep necessary - and help mitigate the utilization of the other 16-hrs of your day! They have special slots set aside on their daily calendar for these types of issues…
Secondly, I would consider reaching out to your local union representative at your voting station upon receiving your mail-in ballot. Only they can deal with these things at the highest of levels!
Third, consider speaking to the Units Fitness Trainer (Sometimes known as an MFT - they used to have a patch they wear) within your organization and make them sit-down and re-evaluate FM 7-22 with your Command - it’s your right as a soldier. Don’t tell them any different, it’s your sleep - Don’t lose out on any more of it!
Lastly, get with your Supply NCO and request some 8540-00-281-8360 for your Section NCO or Squad Leader. It’s just due diligence on your part - they will appreciate your effort!
All the best…

You are in the military time of day means nothing. I was in the coast guard and many time we would go 36 to 48 hours without sleep. My last duty day was the night Eastern Air Lines put an L1011 down in the Florida Everglades were were up all night fueling helos and getting blankets and anything else asked for , no one said it’s 10:00 time for bed. That’s part of your job being ready 24. 7 no mater what.
This is not a job you can say I don’t feel good because the rest of your group count on you doing your part.

There's nothing that is wrong with the PT plan,believe me your body will adjust to the new demands in physical endurance,when I was in Iraq we where providing security to our supply trucks going base to base and sometimes our missions would go into extra innings because of roadside bombs and unforeseen delays that would last up to 13hrs,on one occasion we just returned to the FOB with no sleep and still managed to do PT in the morning with no ill effects,you will have to train and adapt and show some leadership to the soldiers under you and stop complaining or find another career.

Those of us before you have gone thru the same thing. Plus you were not drafted!

Could always ask him to make an exception, otherwise, gonna have to just deal with it.

Could always ask him to make an exception, otherwise, gonna have to just deal with it.

You need to go to your supervisor if it's a problem with sleep. Have your supervisor go to your first sergeant and speak with your first sergeant. Use your chain of command. Go to your squad leader or your platoon leader or your first line supervisor at work. One thing a colonel told me a long time ago. Little Indians don't fight big wars. Have your supervisor fight that war for you. If it's in fact a sleep issue the supervisor can explain. If it's a time management issue then your supervisor can help you manage your time. I can remember staying up all night long with no sleep and having to go to PT formation. However that was my choice to stay out all night It wasn't because of work. Good luck

Hello

Talk to your supervisor about this problem use your chain of command. Let your chain a command talk to the first sergeant. I can remember staying out all night long no sleep and having to be in PT formation. That was a personal choice of mine. However yours is a work related situation go to your chain command. You need sleep and you need physical training too. Good luck.

Start with your chain of command and then go from there

To make it right, show up to PT, have breakfast, and go back to bed.

why can't you sleep after PT? that's what we had to do in Afghanistan for a white year...

7 hours of non-consecutive (meaning 3hours here 4 hours there) of rest is within regulations, according to
FM7-22 (and is a Field Manual, not a regulation). Better solution:Get out of the Army this is not for you, army don’t need you. Become a business owner where you don’t have a boss and can wake up whenever you want, that’s if your clients and attention to the business let’s you. You say you work in a hospital? I know civilian nurses who work 12 hours a day and commute 1hour to work 1hour back. 10 left outside work with 2 hour to cook/clean 2 to spend with the family and 2 to wake up and commute, with 4 hours to sleep on a lucky week, there’s your 24hour day. Oh! And there’s no regulation, you either show to work or get fired (too easy no art.15 involved). Good luck in life!

There's no sleep if you're in combat arms and why should you be an exception and allowed to get more sleep than everyone else? If you cant hang,don't reenlist!

Reading some of these comments just makes me shake my head. We get it. You're all heroes for getting by on so little sleep and OP is just whiny and weak right? Get over yourselves. Getting so little sleep consistently for a long period of time is terrible for your health and commands should be working to help Soldiers balance sleep with duty rather than forcing overly rigid schedules on them. Proper sleep is just as important to fitness as working out and eating right. Not to mention that this Soldier works in healthcare. When you all go to seek medical care, would you rather be in the hands of someone who is healthy and well rested, or an overworked, sleep deprived Soldier?

Other than that welcome to the military

Honestly if you’re a medic and working inside of a hospital clinic during 1600 to 0 hours you can get with your brigade surgeon or your PA to make an exception with your first sergeant because your PA outranks your first sergeant and as a clinic medic you fall directly underneath your PA as your first line. That’s how it was for me at least and I just went to my PA and everything was a okay. Try that out.

Are you perhaps one of those poor deluded souls who believes the Army is a 9-5 job where your NCO's care about you being butt-hurt? Puhleez!
I worked 12 hour shifts on a 6 on/3 off rota and if my break day fell on a weekday I was still expected to show up for either the morning or the afternoon PT formation.
Not only did I frequently not get enough sleep, I had to do PT on my days off.
I'll say it again: Puhleez!

What’ve the 1SG should have the afternoon PT session conducted 1400-1500 that would give the 1600 to midnight shift more of a solid schedule. But I’m retired and in my day we would have just embraced the suck. I never did think PT after working all day was very effective anyhow Soldiers wouldn’t it there all better to do it before work call.

You got 4-5 hours of sleep and are complaining of having to be at PT? I remember having to do PT at 0530 everyday while in the Corps, granted you work the night shift and should be able to be excused from PT. Until then show up for PT or suffer the consequences

Did you bring up the schedule conflict? If not, go do PT.