Posted on Jun 12, 2019
SPC(P) Medical Laboratory Specialist
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We have a new 1SG and new commander. The 1SG noticed one day that only 5 people in the whole company showed up to PT. Now he put out to all the platoon Sergeants that everyone must show up to PT at either the 0530 formation or the 1600 formation.

However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.

I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.

As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.

How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
Edited 6 y ago
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SGT Erick Holmes
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Go through your chain of command to bring up the issues. Everyone knows that while on active duty you have to do PT. You are lucky that you have a choice of what time you want to pt. It sounds like your 1SG is trying to make a point. If you have shift to work from 1600-0000 and have the rest of the day for yourself then do the 0530 and by 7 ish you should be done and in the rack.
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Klieta Bagwell
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I'm 74, at your age, I could get 4 hours of sleep, rise at 0400 and do hours of exercise, work a full day, party a little and do it over again. If you are under 60, suck it up, cause I still do it daily on 6 hours of sleep or less, running a horse rescue. I am sorry, you need to know you will never grow old if you keep your mind and body in shape, and get a better attitude. Your 1SG & CO are only looking after the health and welfare of their people. And for heaven's sake quit whining.
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SSgt William Quinn
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Your enemy is laughing at you.
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MSgt Betsy Mamo
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Well, how about 1500 PT? I propose that, and tell the shirt you will maintain the sign-in sheet.
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SFC Herbert Taitingfong
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If your section sergeant feels the same way as you, then he/she should suggest to your 1SG/CDR if your sections could conduct PT at 1430 -1530, right before work, and ask them to join you guys in PT. The command is only looking out for your health, wellness and wellbeing. They understand that they inherited a company that does section PT because of the shift workers and l'm sure that your leadership attends morning/leaders mtg, they should be addressing the issue. Anyway, passing the PT test keeps you in the military and the only way to do that is to stay fit and to stay fit is to do PT. So it's part "time management" on your side and part "personnel management" on the command side
I use to work in the hospital, LRMC, so I've been there and done that with working clinic hours and shift work hours ER/ EMS.
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CPL Bifd Tannen
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Go explain it to whoever your supposed to report to for your shift, or the tippy top person that they fall under. Then ask them to go clear it up. If it's an officer that you fall under then your Top's balls will moat likely get grilled.... win/win
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SGT John Prolo
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Ahhh…this new Army. I’m sure there’s a career out there for someone of your caliber who needs 8 hours of sleep. When I was in Iraq I needed at least 8 hours of sleep before I could do my duties. I just don’t understand why your command won’t grant your wish!
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LCDR Rob Rosenbaum
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First, follow orders. Learning to do so will save your life one day. Second, assess the situation before you take it to the chain. Perform the function as instructed for at least 1 month. THEN provide feedback to the command as to the feasibility and or fatigue state of the crew impact. Be able to identify the negative readiness impact on your section. If you can't do this it will be considered whining or complaining. Your feedback needs to be for the betterment of the Armed Forces not for yourself. When you take it to the chain start at the bottom! Follow the appropriate chain of command - ask to have the issue elevated if it feels stalled. You will gain a better understanding of each member's issues and concerns along the way not to mention respect for doing so.
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PO1 Kevin Dougherty
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Just speaking generally here. In the USCG at least, only the mid-watch, (0000-0400 or 0000-0800 depending on specific unit or watch,) was exempted from morning quarters. 0000-0400 was allowed rack time until 1000, 0000-0800 was generally off until their next duty. On SAR stations, if you had a call that either began after 0000 or ended after 0000, you were generally allowed to sleep in as needed. Calls 6 to 8 hours or more on a cold, dark, stormy night are nothing to be sneered at.
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PO2 John Harker
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Short answer, life is not going to bend over backwards for you, in the military or out, so embrace the suck.
You've got options here. Senior leadershipay not see it, but the fact is military life doesn't always run on a 24 hour clock. Sometimes it runs on 12 or 15. It takes a couple weeks to adjust to that.
On my deployments, General Quarters and main space fire drills took place in the dead middle of the off periods for the 2330-0530/1130-1730 watches and lasted a good 2 hours.
First option: run a 12 hour day. Up at 1530 on one, work til 0001, in bed at 0100. Up at 0500, pt 2 hours or whatever, then a mix of sleep and personal time til 1530.
The new command is throwing it's weight around, that's all. This crap lasts a week at most, then stops.
Second choice: PT on your own and don't show up at formation. This will probably get you an article 15. More on this in a minute.
Third choice: talk to your immediate supervisor. He or she should be able to find out what the new chain of command expects in PT formation, and then have your shift do their own pt either right before or right after work.
The best solution, though, is the first one, at least til your NCO gets a new formation time approved. There are going to be times when you're running in empty and more needed of you, day after day. In this case, the only consequence if you fail is an Article 15 for missing PT (don't scrimp on patient care to make it to formation). In a war zone, the consequences could include loss of your entire unit. If your chain of command never pushed you like this, you wouldn't be prepared for war.
Upper leadership shouldn't act all shocked that this happens. If your soldiers can't handle this, they're not fit for combat. It should motivate them to PT on their own after a few days, then the stupid PT muster time can be changed or dropped. If they don't respond to it, there's a process for separating those who can't meet the physical fitness requirements. They don't deploy, and after the third failed PRT, they get an admin sep.
Civilian life doesn't always run on a 24 hour clock either. You might separate and find yourself working two jobs to make ends meet and have those exact same hours. In that case, they're not going to change just for you, one or both of them is gonna dismiss you. Civilian hospital employees are on call 24/7 and sometimes go a day or two without personal/family time and short on sleep. They're not on base with the hospital right there, they may have to commute 1 1/2 hours each way or stay overnight in an empty room.
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CWO4 Tim Hecht
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SPC(P) Davis - I may feel your pain but I have no sympathy for you. Callous? Pretty sure that I am with my comment. Your brothers and sisters in arms are the tip of the proverbial spear and if lucky exist on 8 hours of sleep spread out over 3 days. Your comment indicates you are assigned to a hospital. Seek out any Medic at your unit who has served in an active combat zone - ask them to tell you about a typical day while serving with a combat unit.

I worked with an Air Force reserve nurse who deployed several times to a hospital in Baghdad, Iraq whose mission was trying to save the lives of Soldiers, Airman, Marines, and Sailors who were critically injured by snipers, suicide bombers, or roadside IEDs. She didn't want to talk about it at work but she did (still does) have a strong support group. I know a former Army Medic sho suffered from PTSD - why you ask? Squirrel (his nickname) was hung up on "I couldn't save them all." I don't imagine he got a lot of sleep on active duty and know without "chemical" help he spent many a sleepless night - even in rehab.

I won't insult you with some of the comments that could come your way, have come your way, or not; but I grew up in the military starting as an immature 18 year old in 1970 and used to listen to the more "senior" enlisted (when they were in a sharing mood) say it all works out in twenty years. It does.

On a side note, but related to PT: I'm 70-1/2 years old and at the direction of my Primary Care Doctor, my Cardiologist, and the Cardio-Thoracic Surgeon I start PT 2 days a week, for 2 hours a day, for 12 weeks. At least I have the luxury of picking what time of day I get to start. I opted for the afternoon session. Is it mandatory. No but it is voluntary; but if I want to live beyond 70-1/2 years old I need to do it. On the 1st of December last year (It seems like it just happened - wait it did!) I had a Triple Bypass. After 30 years of dealing with cardiac issues I finally had a team of doctors who all agreed that the bypass surgery was a life saver for me.

So SPC(P) Davis when the "whistle" blows for PT fall in sharply and due the best you can - you could end up in a combat zone where sleep comes in 10 - 15 minutes pauses in between casualties. I don't know what your MOS is but you're assigned to a hospital so I suspect its a medical field related job - you may not be a medic working in a squad, platoon, or company but you won't be far from the action; and you will probably reflect on those days when a few hours of your sleep were interrupted by PT.
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Sgt Luis Bonilla
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Adjust and overcome you voluntarily accepted to join the the finest and BEST military in the world you HAVE to adjust and overcome any obstacle it’s mine over matter
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GySgt Charles O'Connell
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Wow! Only 5 showed up to what I can only assume is a Co. C.O. ordered event. I think maybe there are greater problems within this unit.
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SGT Deborah Jones-deleon
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Quit being a pushy or get out of the military. Suck it up and drive on soldier
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SGT Dave Adams
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Sounds like you're whining. I have come in to do PT on 1/2 hour's sleep, and it didn't have any adverse effects. And you're on the E-5 list? You should know better. Here's an idea - run the issue past your NCO support channel and see what they say. Use the Chain of Command. It's been known to work
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SPC David C.
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You said it yourself, you're "junior" enlisted. You go to PT and get it done. Not sure why this is even a question. You want out of it? Show your first shirt you're a PT stud. Max out E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G and he'll find someone else to focus on. Until you can do that, you need to understand you're at the bottom of the food chain and anything you do to stir the pot is going to make things harder on you.
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CWO5 Jeffrey Backus
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Is this daily? or a few times a week? I'd say suck it up, PT and keep yourself fit.
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SPC Carlton Phelps
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You don't solve this. You get off your butt and get busy. As our DS told us, in 1969, will you be complaining about being tired as you are being shot at? I worked out with stress fractures in both feet. Of course, I'm paying for that now, but we had only a couple of ways to get out of PT and neither was much of a choice.
You enlisted and these men are there to train you and maybe save your life later. I hated them at the time but I learned I could handle much more than I thought.
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SSgt Ann Kovarik
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Suck it up buttercup!
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SGT Wayne Grindstaff
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My Co had a perfect response to a 2nd Lt. that complained his men weren't getting enough sleep. Understand we were in a active combat area, all he said was "The Army says a solider only needs 2 hours sleep a day, be happy with that". My Co was a West Pointer and highly respected by all of us that served under him. Not getting sleep is good training for after the service, whether is working 36 hours straight on double time or a party weekend.
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