Posted on Jun 12, 2019
I am being told to go to PT by the command on only 4-5 hours of sleep. As a junior enlisted, how do I solve this problem?
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We have a new 1SG and new commander. The 1SG noticed one day that only 5 people in the whole company showed up to PT. Now he put out to all the platoon Sergeants that everyone must show up to PT at either the 0530 formation or the 1600 formation.
However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.
I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.
As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.
How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.
I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.
As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.
How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
Company Commander
Physical Training
Army Regulations
Policy
Edited 6 y ago
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 1688
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You alleviate this by sucking it up and going to do PT. If you don’t work until 1600, go home, take a nap, go
PT and then go back to sleep after PT. It’s your job to be physically fit and a leader.
PT and then go back to sleep after PT. It’s your job to be physically fit and a leader.
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Every deployed person has been required to perform with less sleep than that. Suck it up.
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The best way to solve this is by staying motivated, stay hydrated and eat healthy. Don't forget to sound off. Five hours sleep is enough to do some PT.
If this doesn't work, file a hurt feelings report under the weak mind category.
If this doesn't work, file a hurt feelings report under the weak mind category.
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God help you if you EVER experience a war deployment. Your grade and MOS won't mean jack when you are turning back an attempt to kill you and you haven't gotten a wink of sleep in 2 or more days. Buckle up buttercup.
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You ARE whining and it's very unbecoming of a military person. Don't ever try to become an aircrewman, you WON'T last a week in training. What has happened to the US military???
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Suspended Profile
On duty until 0000 / 2400, you shouldn't be required to be at PT at 0530. Suggest you Have your Section Chief (NCO) ask the 1SGT if your section can do PT at 1400? If that doesn't work, ask the first officer in your chain the same thing. If ALL else fails, work your way up the chain; as a final resort approach the IG. WHATEVER you do - be where you are TOLD to be in the right uniform with a good attitude...even if the whole thing Sucketh.
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I worked have worked swing shift 1600-0000. We conducted PT as shifts. My company at the time had three different shifts and every shift would just do pt 1.5hr before their work time. Not sure if your shift already does that but that's not right that you should have to do pt 5.5hrs after work. Having 0000-0500 for personal time doesn't work because nothing is open at that time, can't go to appointments or the store. So your sleep schedule will constantly get messed up. This problem is not black and white but so many are looking at this problem in this thread that way. Sure embrace the suck and shut up, but when the mission and PERFORMANCE OF THE MISSION should come first and this COC is only worried how their formation looks in the morning is a problem. The problem is the Army is everyone is always worried about how something looks. How about we use all these initiatives the army keeps putting out about quality of life for soliders and "This is my Squad" and take care of this solider and help him/her instead of telling them to get over it. When someone commits suicide because of stuff like this how would you feel if you told them to get over it. So many people on Rally point are so quick to criticize and dismiss issues it's embarrassing that this is the community response people get for asking for help.
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This is a classic example of so-called 'leadership' being disconnected from reality. Shift work is VERY detrimental to health and morale.
Wouldn't it be better to either 1) make PT part of the shift or 2) have the Soldier log their own PT?
I mean, we do trust them to PT right?
Wouldn't it be better to either 1) make PT part of the shift or 2) have the Soldier log their own PT?
I mean, we do trust them to PT right?
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... learn to love the suck. Even post service, my entire life runs on 4/5 hours of sleep. You'll adjust.
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It's sad to me that you as junior enlisted even have to post this. You should speak with your supervisor and the PSG about your concerns. If you work for NCOs that know the shift time and still can't/won't speak smartly as to account for their Soldiers then something is missing here. There is an inherent risk involved in this shift time anyway. Add in the fact that just because the shift is supposed to end at 0000 when has shift turnover ever been exact. Now take in to account the travel time for Soldier to get home. Regardless of where that may be. Below is a timeline that I could very well imagine:
0005: completed handoff
0010-0015: gathered bags and back to the car
barracks *0030: parked and in the room
off post *0045: back home and inside
(I cant estimate the time it would take each person to get ready but lets just says everyone is in bed by 0100)
0430: wake up, prep bag/bags, change
0450: leave because your average travel time is 30 minutes
0520: arrive for formation
This timeline is absolutely madness to me. I find it ridiculous that a 1SG or any leadership for that matter would find this timeline acceptable. Many have already said it but this isnt about deployment. It's about Soldiers caring for other service members, families, and veterans.
For those of you that keep saying you should suck it up or some variation of it.. You must have been any an absolutely miserable person to work for.
FYI, see if the MTF has a policy on shift duty.
0005: completed handoff
0010-0015: gathered bags and back to the car
barracks *0030: parked and in the room
off post *0045: back home and inside
(I cant estimate the time it would take each person to get ready but lets just says everyone is in bed by 0100)
0430: wake up, prep bag/bags, change
0450: leave because your average travel time is 30 minutes
0520: arrive for formation
This timeline is absolutely madness to me. I find it ridiculous that a 1SG or any leadership for that matter would find this timeline acceptable. Many have already said it but this isnt about deployment. It's about Soldiers caring for other service members, families, and veterans.
For those of you that keep saying you should suck it up or some variation of it.. You must have been any an absolutely miserable person to work for.
FYI, see if the MTF has a policy on shift duty.
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If this is going to cause you such a ruckus, I'd find another employer. This one isn't going to work for you.
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First off, how is it that only five people showed up for a PT Formation? I don't recall it being an option. I can tell you that we spent days on missions with little to no sleep then came in and went to the gym. Physical Health is a vital part of survival in combat, lack of sleep isn't an excuse. If your body is healthy and you are in shape, running on 4-5 hours of sleep, it won't hurt to do PT. It's all about you and your health and conditioning. If your Leadership is giving you an option of times and you know you are working at the time of one of the options then I guess your only option is the 0530 formation. Just because you have a job (like everyone else) doesn't excuse you from regulations and responsibility. Just my opinion.
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I don't really want to sound off base here, but I was really asking myself if this was a real concern. I come from the early 80's Marine Corps. and to be honest, a question like this NEVER crossed my mind. I guess if you are being ordered to be in formation for PT, you just be there. There was no such thing about feelings then, I'm surprised there is now. Good luck moving forward though..
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What do you think you could do between the completion time of PT...around 0630, maybe 0700 and the time you are expected to report back for your shift at 1600? If my military math is correct, that would mean you have 9 hours to do something? What could it be? PT is a great way to relieve stress, build strength and stamina and maybe dig down inside yourself to see if you have it within to cope mentally and physically. Have you even tried to make it work yet? Or are you beating yourself before you can beat the problem?
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Boo Hoo. I suspect that the men at Bastogne, Guadalcanal and the Chosin reservoir would have appreciated 4 hours sleep. The first thing you do is follow orders and fall out for PT at the designated time. Then you approach your section leader to see if arrangements can be made for your section (1600-0000) to do PT at a time that works with your duty schedule, maybe your section could do their PT at 1400. If you do not get a response the move up the chain of command with your suggestion.
I assume that you are not trying to avoid PT just do it at a better time. I can remember when my platoon would fall out for PT/ 3 mile run on Monday mornings if you were unfortunate enough to be in the rear of the column you could literally get high on the alcohol being emitted in perspirations by troops running at the front of the column.
And yes you do sound like your whining.
I assume that you are not trying to avoid PT just do it at a better time. I can remember when my platoon would fall out for PT/ 3 mile run on Monday mornings if you were unfortunate enough to be in the rear of the column you could literally get high on the alcohol being emitted in perspirations by troops running at the front of the column.
And yes you do sound like your whining.
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Wow, there is a plethora of shit leadership in this thread, LoL. "My life in the military sucked ass so yours should also." That shitty attitude is why the military loses great Service Members every year. They don't want to put up with dumbass "this is what was done to me so this is what I'll do to you" type leadership. What ever happened to working smarter as a calling for being in a leadership position?
There are at least a dozen ways the leadership could solve the PT problem that don't involve giving a soldier on their off time because some dipshit NCO needs their ego stroked. And reading a lot of the replies...a lot of you are the toxic leadership that fucks up units.
There are at least a dozen ways the leadership could solve the PT problem that don't involve giving a soldier on their off time because some dipshit NCO needs their ego stroked. And reading a lot of the replies...a lot of you are the toxic leadership that fucks up units.
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SSG (Join to see)
SPC Marvin Darling LMAO, I don't wonder why you didn't make it any higher.
There's this concept called leadership and I can see you haven't an ounce of it.
There's this concept called leadership and I can see you haven't an ounce of it.
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SSG Deron Santiny
So wait, because someone thinks there shouldn't be an option of whether you get to do PT or not they are "Toxic"? I can promise you, you won't find an Infantryman that hasn't had to do something on less than 4-5 hours of sleep crying about it on here. I guess there is a reason why you weren't an Infantryman other than the fact that you couldn't handle it. I don't give a rats ass what your job is, Physical Fitness is vital to survival in Combat and if you can't handle working all night and sleeping for a few hours then having to get up and doing something else, you are WEAK! Like I said in my comment, we were lucky to get any sleep at all for days on in (because the enemy didn't care if you were tired while trying to kill you) then when we got in, went to the gym, it's a mindset, not toxicity. Our lives depended on whether our bodies would hold up so it really wasn't an option. If you can't handle pressure of sleeping 4-5 hours in a regular workday, you sure as hell won't be able to handle it when you deploy. Get off your high horse and realize that just because you think you are right doesn't mean it's so. I'd rather go into battle with all these "Drunken Bastards" any day of the week than with a bunch of crybabies who can't handle working a full time job on little to no sleep. I'm sure you've heard stories of Warriors that Never QUIT, well, crying about peoples reaction to a Soldier crying about having to do PT after only 4-5 hours of sleep is basically the same thing. Maybe you are the Toxic Leadership that is hurting the Military, apparently you are the reason we have lowered standards these days that allows for such crying.
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SPC Marvin Darling
SSG (Join to see) I made it as far in rank as I wanted to.. I knew I was only in for a single enlistment and let my NCOIC know that I didn't want to take up an E5 slot that could be given to someone who wanted to make a career out of it.. It's called planning a future and stepping aside for the good of others.. Never assume to know someone's story because it just makes you look like an egotistical ass.
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TSgt John Brody
Spot on! I've seen more crap leadership that had a hypocritical attitude, "rules for thee, but not for me" and it just tanked unit performance. Then they wondered why no one wanted to show up for "fun days"....then, yup you guessed it, they turned into "mandatory fun days".
The real crime here is that we are ALL taught how to manage and lead. NCO's and Officers that reject training should be ejected from the service.
The real crime here is that we are ALL taught how to manage and lead. NCO's and Officers that reject training should be ejected from the service.
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Yes you are whining, this is not a 9-5 job. I guess those 4-5 hours were in a bed as well, not laying in mud during the rainy season. I was told the Army did a study and a soldier only needed 2 hours a day of sleep and during my 1 year tour in Vietnam as an 11Bravo there was day's I didn't get that. Remember taking orders and following orders will help you in life after the Military as well.
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