I am being told to go to PT by the command on only 4-5 hours of sleep. As a junior enlisted, how do I solve this problem?

I got tired of being screw over. I became violent. Don't do this!! Chain of command.

Looks like you need to make some rank and maybe get your section to shift hours. How can you be the only one with this issue? After PT take a shower and a nap, as a junior enlistee what else have you to do but make sure your uniform is presentable? Yes it sucks. You need to suck it up until you suck lemonade. As a junior enlisted Navy corpsman near the end of Nam we had Port and Starboard Duty. 12 hour shift, 12 hour on call and it was a fluke if you didn't work those 12 hours, then your 12 hour shift and finally 12 hours off to sleep, poop, do laundry and get the next 3 or 4 uniforms ready. We wore working whites and it was expected for you to be shaved and in a neat uniform no matter who barfed or bleed on you. Two of us took care of 64 full care, like in traction, patients and had to time strip our IV bottles because there were no pumps. You could set your watch by my IVs. It got done and we were proud of it.

Poor baby! Glad I'm not deploying with you. Dies your

it sounds like you should not have joined the military and that your command is a mess for not making everyone pt already ..

Only 5 & 1/2 hours off duty before needing to report again is pretty rough. I’d suggest engaging with your section chief to come up with alternative plans that can be presented to your Commander/1SG that will accommodate you/your section as well as complete the mission.

Until your chain of command changes guidance by either being convinced or otherwise I’d suggest being at that formation even if it sucks. You’ll likely only get counseling statements & or UCMJ thrown at you for missing formation.

Do you have a family? That would hamper time getting a nap during the day.

Ask what time is best and show up and suck it up. Stop being a barracks room lawyer. When you are getting shot at and w/o much or little sleep then you can complain. Ask a question and you'll get a straight answer.

Sounds like my days working as a paramedic in New York Tennessee and Texas. Long hours sometimes no sleep 24/48 schedule we made it work. I'm not saying that the rules on PT are right, but they're not illegal and it won't kill you

Uh, you could go to bed earlier.

I don't know if this is still the case, but at one time leaders were required to allow a minimum of four hours of sleep for their soldiers. Some held it to just that amount in some instances. I've been told that studies show that soldiers perform better with a decent amount of sleep (8 hours) but some old-school leaders still like to keep things miserable. My suggestion would be to propose through your chain of command a mid-day PT time or if the 1SG says no then wake up, go to PT then go back to sleep. It sucks, but you did volunteer to join the army. I can assure you that if you go downrange your sleep schedule will be even more F'ed up than it is now.

This is the reason the army is getting soft, poor baby.

How about speaking with the 1SG or CMDR about a separate PT session for your section's shift workers? Offer, as a show of initiative, to be the one to establish a schedule and training plan. Depending on resources, you might have a gym open 24/hrs or a PT field all to yourself at 1am, or you can hold PT an hour or two before shift. Offer to coordinate leadership roles for each session for at least a month to test out the new schedule. Take and report attendance. Volunteer to be one of the PT leaders. Invite the 1SG and CDR to attend a few of your sessions. This is how we often handled PT with weird shifts. I had one shift where we had only 4 people - my entire squad - doing PT every day at 7am after mid-shift. We always got a good workout and the command could always find us because they knew where we were scheduled each day (gym, basketball court, field, whatever).

Seriously? Is there no standards in the military anymore?!? I mean the lack of discipline alone is astounding, we’re gonna be in a world of hurt when a real war starts.

I also remember coming home from the club and going straight to PT with now sleep as well but most of us knew and had each others 6. We helped each other through it. Even now 14 years after the military I still serve my country in the military on the civilian side. No I don’t go out anymore but have a family to care for and at 50 we are both disabled but I still get up @ 0330 everyday and go to work on 3 - 5 hours of sleep so suck it up or change careers. Whenever you deploy you’ll probably get less sleep than that.

The military must have changed quite a bit. I remember being told the Army is required to provide 1 hot meal (if possible) and 1 hour of sleep per day. Sleep was always get while you can. PT was 6 days a week at 0500.

There is a certain part of me that says that this is doable as I have been in situations like this before. This situation is sustainable for a short duration of time (6months or less) without resulting in burnout. The other side of the coin is that the 1600 showtime should be adjusted to match the work schedule of those that work the earlier shift. e.g.: 0530 PT and 0730 work shift start should also reflect with 1400 PT and 1600 work start. I would suggest a conversation with a proposed solution with your leadership.

For all those expressing to Suck It Up,… leadership is a two way street,… dictatorship is never a good style

I'm gonna keep it

Bottom Line Up Front: the commander CAN have you do PT as described so your goal is to convince the commander that he is assuming unnecessary risk.

The army produced a Field Manual in October of 2020 which covered sleep issues and the degredation of mission readiness. FM 7-22 covers how, although Soldiers can perform on less than 7-8 hours of sleep per night and can supplement their performance with caffeine, this is a temporary fix. Soldiers need 7-8 hours per night and sleeping during daylight hours is less restful. The only thing that can truly replace lost sleep is sleep. If I were you, I would first seek to address this with the 1SG as it seems he is the driving force. In your Army career, always approach with a solution in mind to the problem. His issue is lack of visibility/attendance on PT. If I were in your shoes, I might build a PT schedule, plan PT to occur prior to shift to maximize sleep time and mirror everyone else's PT before work schedule, and then offer to be personally responsible for the program. This demonstartes leadership, proposes a solution, and meets the intent of doing PT every day with visibility. If the 1SG is unwilling to hear your proposal, there is always the commander's open door policy. Present this regulation and your plan and see if you can affect change. Moving forward in your career, approach every problem with this mentality:
-Is it legal?
-Is it efficient?
And then do the research for regulations and present a solution. If all you do is identify the problem, you are just complaining. Best of luck to you.

And for all the salty vets out there who are going to quote the "you only need 4 hours"....we dont need to be hard for the sake of being hard. Operate with purpose. What purpose does forcing one shift to get less sleep serve? As a flight medic, would you want me dealing with your loved one on only 3 hours of sleep or would you want the best possible medical care available? Operate in the best interest of your Soldier within the confines of the mission and you will achieve FAR superior results.

Fallow your chain of command and plead your case to your Sgt, SSgt, then 1StSgt. if that doesn't work and you still feel you shouldn't have to show up do to your work schedule see your company Xo. Still You may or may not be excused do to the fact you still have plenty of down time after PT to rest before your work shift. Remember you are in the military not a civilian so you may just have to suck it up and deal with it. But anything's worth a try. Good Luck.

Well shit Rally Point this post is 4yrs old why is it just showing up on my feed? lol

I'm just going to say that in my experience, First Sergeants who are either new to a unit, or newly promoted love to wave their metaphorical nethers around to show dominance. Its garbage, its often short lived, but its what I personally saw. Crusty sergeants can dislike, its what I personally saw. I will also point out that in a "peacetime military", PT is one one of those places where toxic leaders can still exercise control.

I notice you're not saying a lot about what you're doing in those five and a half hours post duty. That's your business. If you're goofing off, then I have little sympathy. that said, try to get around the situation. maybe nap, or handle online tasks till you need to go to PT. then shower and rack out till you have to get up and do errands or get ready for the next day. if getting to sleep is a problem, maybe looking at a pharmacy for herbal remedies such as melatonin or chamomile after talking with a doctor might not be a bad idea- last I checked, chamomile tea and melatonin are not counted as narcotics. white noise generators or ASMR vids might also be a remedy as well. try to solve the problem before you complain, or take this up the chain of command- it shows you took time and made an effort to solve the problem.