Posted on Oct 15, 2015
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Military Pay
Fair Pay
Transition
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 18
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I think it is very condescending and rude. Nobody should be attacked for having the job that they have, and if military people think they somehow are of more value to America than others, then they are serving for the wrong reason. What happened to serving because it was the right thing to do?
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MSgt Michael Smith
I personally believe that it is the food servers right to complain, and everyone else's right to criticize them for it. I have no problems at all with that. What I don't like about the meme is the underlying theme there. Maybe I read too much into it, but I don't like it when memes like this suggest that what soldiers do is somehow much more valuable than what anyone else does. That is not for us to say. The American people are the ones that praise or criticize our service -not us. We should serve with honor and selflessness, because that is what service is. I don't mean to preach but I see so many younger vets nowadays who just overtly demand praise and attention for their service --they think they are owed this -and that is not a good attitude.
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PO3 Sherry Thornburg
MSgt Michael Smith - You may have a point, but consider what the E-4 soldier with 2 years in gets paid (just shy of 24,000) and a 15.00 per hour job for flipping burgers full time would be ($31,200). One usually expects higher pay to correspond with higher skills and knowledge. Well, a military person with some A school training has both those things over a restaurant worker, but is being paid significantly less.
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PO3 Sherry Thornburg
SPC David Rosenlund - Totally agree with your assessment. I did McCashier work during college. It was a job, not fun and not great. I moved on too. But it seems that there is a group that wants to make a nest on first base and never move any further.
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SGM Steve Wettstein
PO3 Sherry Thornburg - Your $24,000 a year for an E-4 is based on only base pay. What about room and board and medical benefits that the fast food people definitely don't get. I am not saying that they deserve $15.00 an hour for fast food work. IMO they do not, that industry is for kids to work and should not be a profession unless you are in management. I am just sick of people only telling part of the story to make it look like we don't get paid shit.
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I think that meme is much better put to use in raising the pay of service members than in suppressing the wages of fast food workers.
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MCPO Roger Collins
What is the average Profit after tax (PAT) in the fast food industry? Wages are normally defined by the contributions toward the profitability of a business. Those prices go up and the business must raise their prices to all, including those that use them. I'm betting the customers at Mac's are among them. This is just another way of wealth distribution, unfortunately from the middle class again. These jobs were and are meant to be a doorway into the job market, not provide a living wage as noted by some. Unions pay and bennies are tied to minimum wages in some instances. That and a huge population of new dues paying membership (out of their new found wages) is the goal of labor. That is the goal here. BTW, the military members on AD and retired, for the most part are doing quite well according to the last pay scale I saw.
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If flipping burgers is your dream career more power to you. It's still not worth $15 and hour.......
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and then there is the business side to this as well -
Despite the job basic economic theory suggests that wages depend on a workers marginal revenue Product MRP. (this is basically the value that they add to the firm who employs them)
MRP is determined by two factors
MPP – Marginal physical product – the productivity of a worker
MR – Marginal Revenue of last good sold – Effectively the price and demand for the good that the worker produces.
When the wage rate is raised above the market equilibrium quantity, there is a surplus of labor, meaning more individuals are willing to work at minimum wage than firms are willing to hire. Increasing the minimum wage results in firms laying off those workers whose marginal revenue product (MRP) is less than the marginal resource cost. While the government can set the minimum wage it doesn't mean businesses can afford or will employ people at that rate. This also works the other way in creating a shortage.
Its just the way it works - however I can guarantee if you raise the minimum wage people will get laid off.
Despite the job basic economic theory suggests that wages depend on a workers marginal revenue Product MRP. (this is basically the value that they add to the firm who employs them)
MRP is determined by two factors
MPP – Marginal physical product – the productivity of a worker
MR – Marginal Revenue of last good sold – Effectively the price and demand for the good that the worker produces.
When the wage rate is raised above the market equilibrium quantity, there is a surplus of labor, meaning more individuals are willing to work at minimum wage than firms are willing to hire. Increasing the minimum wage results in firms laying off those workers whose marginal revenue product (MRP) is less than the marginal resource cost. While the government can set the minimum wage it doesn't mean businesses can afford or will employ people at that rate. This also works the other way in creating a shortage.
Its just the way it works - however I can guarantee if you raise the minimum wage people will get laid off.
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CPT James Burkholder
It seems unfair to compare the value of our military personnel to the individual who produces a product, or sells a product. I'm no economist nor really a businessman but I see no way to assess a value to the benefit received by the protection of our armed forces. Now, I grant that much of what they have been ordered to do for the last decade seems to be of little benefit to the economics of the country. That is the decision of our civilian elected government, not the military itself. Still, how do we put a dollar value to their presence. I for one think they are the ones who need increased pay and benefits. There should be not one American soldier having to get food stamps. I won't bother with the burger flippers. They can always join (if they pass the drug tests and physical requirements).
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SPC David S.
CPT James Burkholder in some cases like with military service the individual forfeits wages for a sense of self worth. Thus that is why people volunteer and work for free. In some cases you can't put a value on that. In this case though we might be able to get a rough estimate if we look at how much do defense security contractors get paid. The individual contractors on the ground typically earn about $600 to $700 a day. Some can earn $1,000 a day, depending on qualifications and experience. I would agree that service members' sense of duty allows them to be taking advantage of to some degree financially - however ask anyone that ever served if they did it for the money.
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Hoo-Boy-"...and here, we, go!"
The truth is, most Americans realize that a small percentage of veterans ever experience "combat". We can thank a cynical, "expose" driven media for highlighting this rather than the achievements, training and dedication ANY military service requires in comparison.
In addition to being paid WAY too little for all of that...many service members also enjoy fair benefits few civilians really know how to quantify; exchanges, health care, etc. We get to be "cool", spend a lot of our free time cavorting around the towns bordering our bases, and even have our own special social media/networking site (savvy?).
Balance all that against the fact that more civilians are working well below their education level, and "memes" like this get predictable ire from those who feel (not to steal from mamzy-pamzy sources) like a "Third Estate".
When I've been engaged in these discussions, I just casually ask the civilian in question whether or not they can quit the job they hate and get paid so little for whenever they like. If that doesn't work, I just point out the location of the nearest recruiting office.
This usually ends the discussion.
The truth is, most Americans realize that a small percentage of veterans ever experience "combat". We can thank a cynical, "expose" driven media for highlighting this rather than the achievements, training and dedication ANY military service requires in comparison.
In addition to being paid WAY too little for all of that...many service members also enjoy fair benefits few civilians really know how to quantify; exchanges, health care, etc. We get to be "cool", spend a lot of our free time cavorting around the towns bordering our bases, and even have our own special social media/networking site (savvy?).
Balance all that against the fact that more civilians are working well below their education level, and "memes" like this get predictable ire from those who feel (not to steal from mamzy-pamzy sources) like a "Third Estate".
When I've been engaged in these discussions, I just casually ask the civilian in question whether or not they can quit the job they hate and get paid so little for whenever they like. If that doesn't work, I just point out the location of the nearest recruiting office.
This usually ends the discussion.
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The public perception has changed recently. In the day, everyone knew that flipping burgers was a young kids job in getting them gas money for college, etc. Now older people think it should be a high paying career. They're doing a good job of killing the kid worker market.
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SGT Jeremiah B.
Reality has changed. It used to be you could get a decent job without a college degree and if you did get a degree, it wasn't going to mire you in enormous debt. The new reality is that your choices are crappy low wage jobs bordering on slave labor or $50k in student loans...
We need to bring back reasonable votech education. The current crop of for-profit schools aren't any cheaper than a standard degree and a lot of people simply aren't college material.
We need to bring back reasonable votech education. The current crop of for-profit schools aren't any cheaper than a standard degree and a lot of people simply aren't college material.
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Incomparable jobs.
One is a Skilled Profession, the other is Untrained Labor. The compensation (Pay & Benefits) for each is commensurate with the training and education requirements.
One is a Skilled Profession, the other is Untrained Labor. The compensation (Pay & Benefits) for each is commensurate with the training and education requirements.
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It's a non sequiter. What one job is paid in some places has no bearing on whether or not the minimum wage is too low. If anything, it highlights the opposite - there are all kinds of jobs that are serially under-appreciated and under-compensated.
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SGT Jeremiah B.
MCPO Roger Collins - Police officers, teachers, fire fighters, etc etc. In some places, they are woefully under-compensated. If you are a police officer and your pay scale is "threatened" by a McDonald's worker making $10-15/hour, you are being underpaid.
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MCPO Roger Collins
Do you understand the pressure small counties and towns are having with the economic pressures? It's isn't because they don't want to pay the first responders more, it's that the well is dry. In large cities where there is a large tax base, it can be worked, albeit at the expense of jobs, but not so in many places. What are the ripple effects of a mandatory minimum pay structure enforced by the government?
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Who determines a job's value? Federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour...I've experienced that post military career. People continue to patronize service industry establishments and of course someone has to be employed by the same burger place that some folks look down on. The same skewed view is applied to military personnel. If you're not a grunt you're worthless right? Until you're bleeding out or starving or you comm is out. But we say everyone 's service is equally important. Why can't a person who works in a hotel or BK ask for a wage to keep up with the cost of living? If they were on welfare people would bellyache and now being employed the same ones bellyache about that. You never know where circumstances will place you. There's a lot more to these jobs than flipping burgers...and as a individual who had to swallow his pride and work in customer service in order to help, not cover but help pay bills, I find it offensive. Many vets do these jobs temporarily or permanently but no one here will criticize them to their faces. If McDonalds would pay 15 dollars an hour,I bet many in other occupations would show up to partake. Additionally that pic is garbage. If you joined up to make money,you're a mercenary. Service members do what they do so a guy can work at Motel 6 if he chooses to.
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LTC Colin Hanzlik
Hooah, Marco! If you want to compare yourself to someone else, you should put yourself in their shoes first. It was our patriotic choice to enlist or be commissioned (at least for the last 40 years) and we shouldn't belittle those who chose a different path, nor ridicule them for exercising the freedoms that we are sworn to protect. Only out of jealousy would someone say that another person doesn't deserve a raise in pay.
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One of many problems with this meme and the comments below is "flipping burgers." Everyone here is arguing about 'burger flippers.' There are many more low-wage jobs besides "flipping burgers." Active military personal get housing. The cost of living for civilians is crazy and doesn't match wages. This isn't about lazy 16 year olds, this is about single mothers, people who can't afford college, people who can't serve in the military (approx. 1 million active US military vs. 300 million US citizens, obviously not everyone can serve -_-), etc. Increased wages will have an impact on employers and numerous other things. So obviously, this is something simple, it needs discussion and problem solving. Memes like this and believing that raising the minimum wage is only about lazy high schoolers "flipping burgers" prevents that conversation from even happening.
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PO3 Sherry Thornburg
Lazy teens, as you say, don't last long in these jobs. These are entry level jobs meant to work up from. Not showing up on time and not doing your job right will get you fired fast as there are so many other people who need that first door to employment. These jobs were never meant to support anything other than a single young person starting out.
Yet, in a stagnate economy and job market, talking about higher minimum wages comes up as unemployed bachelor and masters degrees are doing the burger flipping. I know a college grad and past Marketing Exec who was mergered out of his job and is now working at an auto parts store. Maybe he makes better than minimum, but certainly not what he was used to.
I agree, its not about the teens, its about the adults that get stuck in these jobs. But it also IS about the teens that can't compete with an adult for what should be THEIR entry shot, NOT the adults parking spot until the economy gets better.
Yet, in a stagnate economy and job market, talking about higher minimum wages comes up as unemployed bachelor and masters degrees are doing the burger flipping. I know a college grad and past Marketing Exec who was mergered out of his job and is now working at an auto parts store. Maybe he makes better than minimum, but certainly not what he was used to.
I agree, its not about the teens, its about the adults that get stuck in these jobs. But it also IS about the teens that can't compete with an adult for what should be THEIR entry shot, NOT the adults parking spot until the economy gets better.
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