Posted on Dec 21, 2014
SSG(P) Ncoic
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Background: My first line supervisor is a 8 year E-5, after I get picked up this month hopefully; I will still have more points then her, even without attending ALC.
She consistently does not disseminate information from daily NCOIC meetings she attends and expects me and one other person on my team to have tasks completed before she ask, for example she ask "are our vehicles dispatched" and my response is usually no are they supposed to be? She will ask do you know where Maj (the OIC of our team) is today, and I am like uhhhh no.

My monthly counselings are never done and when they are she wants me to back date them. When she goes on leave, she leaves a big to do list for me to get accomplished. For example, organize our conex's which we have 4. My team is in charge of a 50 patient hospital.

But the last straw was this week, she waiting until COB to move our equipment from MED Maintenance. Never mind the fact we only have 4 Soliders on our team and I am the only one with out a permanent profile. We are in charge of a 50 patient hospital and have to move this equipment ourselves; but when it comes to moving the equipment she in not to be found. This is just one example, of the daily activities I have to go through.

I need help.......
Posted in these groups: Leadership abstract 007 Leadership
Edited >1 y ago
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1SG Civil Affairs Specialist
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"Back date counseling"? Sounds like a digital signature problem-solver to me.

SSG(P) (Join to see), I can assure you that if your leadership is engaged at all, they are well aware of this SGT's habits. She will get hers, in time. In the meantime, there is a job to do.

What you MUST DO, is do the right thing. She may be lazy and disengaged, but she is still a Sergeant and has the ability to make life difficult if this goes from lazy to petty. Believe me, your leaders know if you are carrying the team too.

I do see an improvement you can make. Make it a point to do the dispatches and know where your Major is without needing to respond to an inquiry. I've preached to my junior Soldiers for a very long time: Do routine things routinely (or without being asked) and while it may be your lot in life to be a vehicle driver, be excellent at it. You will be a leader soon enough. Senior leaders treasure quality Soldiers and take care of them. We know who makes our unit go. Take those two pieces of advice and I promise you that you will go far and put this individual in your rear-view mirror.
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SPC Daniel Edwards
SPC Daniel Edwards
>1 y
1SG (Join to see) & SSG(P) (Join to see), just a thought: what if the Major does not inform anyone when he/she leaves? Is it still her responsibility to know that the Major stepped out? Just curious for when/if I ever get in the same situation.
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1SG Civil Affairs Specialist
1SG (Join to see)
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Yes, SPC Daniel Edwards, it is always a Soldier's responsibility to know the whereabouts of their team members.
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SGT Journeyman Plumber
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>1 y
SSG(P) (Join to see) Once I became a senior line medic and started being involved more with the company level senior leadership, including being at meetings, my view of said leadership radically changed. To echo what 1SG (Join to see) has said if you excel at your job and are carrying your team it will be noticed. You may not think it's noticed because you're not privy to those conversations, but I promise you that it is. Anticipate routine tasks and excel at your job and you'll find your career moving forward while this poor NCOs career continues to stagnate.
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CW3 Network Architect
CW3 (Join to see)
5 y
1SG (Join to see) - It is not a junior Soldier's responsibility to keep track of officers.
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SSG Cannon Crew Member
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Edited >1 y ago
I always enjoyed working for people like this, they were a great example of what NOT to do. Id address the next higher up, write a list of all the incidents you can think of. Dates, times, witnesses etc. It may come across as petty, but if you have facts and can state them accordingly it is more effective than trying to remember them on the spot and helps you to not come across as just complaining. On the other hand, the system is usually pretty good at finding these people and Karma is always right around the corner. Just take care of yourself, ensure you are doing what is right and even though they may be "stupid" instructions, they are instructions. Take care of you and stay out of trouble. But I would surely address my next higher. If you do get picked up, maybe the COC is waiting for someone to replace her. Wouldn't be the first time I have seen someone work for someone they actually outranked. Just remember all the things you are complaining about and ensure you do not posses those same traits when you have Soldiers under you... Good luck.
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
TSgt Joshua Copeland
>1 y
I have to concur with SSG (Join to see) , document everything and bring it to the Sgt's supervisor.
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LTC Operations Officer (Opso)
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SSG(P) (Join to see) this may not be the answer you want to hear...but tell the chain of command. If they ignore it then do your job and pray for PCS as soon as you can. It is not in your control. We all have seen this and seen people stay in and promoted that should not have been. Learn from this. Ensure that if you ever are in charge you do not pass them onto others, promote, or ignore. Instead become a better leader and be prepared to do the paperwork necessary to document and process these Soldiers (leaders or not) out of the service if they will not do their share. You can try to change them and develop them, but always ALWAYS ALWAYS document so that if you fail you can process them out.
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I have a lazy first line supervisor and the Command Team does nothing about it. Advice?
SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS
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SSG(P) (Join to see) A wise SGM once told me the best NCOs were the ones who were poorly lead, recognized it, and ensured they would not replicate that behavior. From reading your post you seem to be conscientious and fully prepared for your role as an NCO.

In some cases, learning from a poor leader may make a bigger impact than learning from a good or even great leader. While you don't learn what to do, in great detail, you certainly are shown what not to do.

All that said, document in a Memorandum for Record all of what you have experienced, the mission failure(s) which have been avoided by your teams diligence in your leaders absence, and, my suggestion is to, speak with your NCO support channel to determine from them what the best course may be. Make sure, as SSG (Join to see) pointed out you also document witnesses names so if verification is needed, it is available.

Hopefully your NCO Support Channel will provide some guidance. You may even want to approach it from an "I am about to be an NCO and want to learn how to deal with situations like this" manner.

Back dating monthly counseling sessions is a no go and I thought the current digital signature process would not allow back dating since it signs it the actual day the digital signature is applied.

If this fails then you may / will have no choice but utilize the Chain of Command to deal with the issue(s).

Finally, as 1SG (Join to see) related do your routine tasks (dispatching vehicles and keeping track of the MAJ) without being asked. In this way one piece of your day will run smoothly and when the SGT asks if this has been done, the reply can be a loud and clear affirmative.

Continue to treat this SGT with the respect due her rank and when presenting information only present facts, not passion. Passion may be misunderstood as animosity which tells a leader this is a personal issue and not a professional one. Present the facts, if and when you address these issues and also as pointed out by 1SG (Join to see) it is likely your CoC is already aware of this NCOs behavior, conduct, and attitude.

I hope you find this helpful. Last bit, no matter what, maintain your bearing and respect. Be better than a lazy / poor leader and grow beyond this, do not lower allow this experience to jade you as there is good and bad in everything.
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SFC Craig Starr
SFC Craig Starr
9 y
Great advice SFC, especially the last. Maintain your bearing. These things that bother you are not life and death, but bother you because you care about your mission. That's good, but keeping professional and maintaining your bearing will help take the high road. If you don't care for a particular leader, wait a minute. Leadership changes often. Reflect, leanr, move forward and do great things.
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CPT Surgical Physician Assistant
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SSG (Join to see) has some sage words in there.

I would suggest a more positive route. Try to get inside their decision making cycle and have as much done before they ask. Even more than that, know that they are going to ask for A and then have B, C and D done for them already. Do the best you can at all times and exercise your initiative now, and then when you are working for a leader that you think is worthwhile, they will love you.

Your work will not be unnoticed. At the very least you will set a positive example for your soldiers.

I am sorry about your situation. I have been there and not followed my advice. Good luck.
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CPT Surgical Physician Assistant
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I agree with you good sir. I like your defensive measures you mention in your response about taking down dates and times, so if they try to burn you, then you can show something written. (Also works great with emails). I would only give my advice in the context that you are responsible for you (subordinates as well to varying degrees), and how you deal with a situation speaks to your character. If you are able to model the right thing in a crappy circumstance then that will pay dividends down the road. I would suggest the poster to take your advice as well as consider mine.

Also, there are limits as you mentioned, once your reach D, there needs to be a stopping point because you are only one person. It's a touchy situation. Again I say good luck.
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SSG Cannon Crew Member
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good input SSG J.R.
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SSG Cannon Crew Member
SSG (Join to see)
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Also, thinking about this,, the COC might not even know she is a bad NCO. She might be putting up a good front and they just dont see what is going on. That happens ALL the time. They have other things to worry about and maybe if someone addresses the issue, it would come to light so that they COULD do something about it. Always hard and tricky when the complaint is "going up" instead of down.
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CPT Surgical Physician Assistant
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You make an excellent point SSG (Join to see) . It is a possibility that one could work "laterally" and find a good team/squad leader of the same level and explain the issue with documentation. If there is no relief there, then it should be brought up with the understanding that it will be a difficult road. At least then the SM could say that they tried to take care of it at the lowest level. I do not envy your position SSG(P) (Join to see) .
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MSG Military Science Instructor
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SPC(P) April Thomas, everyone’s comment is spot on and gives you a course of action to take. My advice would be to create your own battle rhythm of tasks that are normally done during a week. For example, if every Monday (or first day of the work week) is command maintenance then dispatch the vehicles. For Friday’s, then you know you have motor pool closeout which will include closing out dispatches.

As for back dating counseling, that is a big NO GO. If you are not being counseled monthly (at a minimum) then your immediate supervisor is wrong. My other advice would be to learn from your NCOs lack of leadership and adjust that to be a better leader yourself. Lastly, if you go seeking help from your next higher echelon then I would ask if you can sit in those NCO meetings. I personally have a SPC (non- promotable) in charge of one my sections in my platoon and he does absolutely great.
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TSgt Ncoic, E&T
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This is NCO training for you at its finest! As SSG Bubba Broadbent said, it's a great example of what NOT to do, but also an opportunity for you to step up your game. Not saying you're a bad troop, but a troop that obviously cares enough to notice these things, because most don't. Best thing to do, and this is something I learned when I was an Airman, know your job, your supervisor's job, and your supervisor's supervisor's job. Be as proactive as possible, I know it's not easy to know everything that is going on around you, but the better you get at not having to be told to do things or being aware of who is where, it will make you a more efficient NCO in the future... Good luck
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SGM Retired
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Remember no matter how good you are, and even if you think your the best , their is always someone better than you so I would think some is lazier than them as well. lazier than them as well. Lol works both ways, just once you run into the biggest POS there could ever be, bam! Another new and improved model shows up...
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MSG Mechanic 2nd
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have you connected with the platoon sgt or 1sg, this begins at the lowest level, then goes higher
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CPO Randy Francis
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It was working for people like that that got me promoted to E-7 in 8 years. I was able to separate myself from them in the eyes of the COC by being their exact opposite. You should do the same and in no time she'll be working for you. Be the obvious "go-to" person and your chain will notice.
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SGT Team Leader
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Memorandum For Record. With everything written out with dates and witnesses. But before you do that and turn it in, go to her first line with her and professionally and tactfully discuss it with them. Remember the conversation is about how to solve the problem not about assigning blame.
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CW3 Kevin Storm
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You have several options at this point, one is to step and be the leader that the rest are looking for. Be her assistant, your an NCO get in there an assist her to do a better job. Is there a reason she is not doing a good job? Possible she is overwhelmed or is lazy. Force her to give you back briefs after her morning meetings so you can disseminate the information.

If you have a training schedule read it in advance and know the vehicles will need to be dispatched on Wednesdays or Mondays or what ever day that they need dispatching. If possible do an extended dispatch for the week and be done with that task. Be proactive, what did the Dali Lama say "be the change that you seek" or something to that effect.

Conex's...I have 7 of them at work for the VA and I am a staff of 1.5 and .5 is in a wheel chair. I have the organized, inventoried, where stuff is on a spreadsheet. Stuff that gets used a lot is up front, low use, towards the rear. I use pallet shelving cut to the height of the conex's and have them bolted to the floor. Beat up your supply people or hunt around the post for shelving to get the stuff you want or need to get stuff stored so it is easier to inventory, and keep organize so this stuff doesn't happen. I am not telling you this to brag, but to let you know you will to put in some hard work to get it the way you want it, but once it is done, your peers will wish to emulate. My counterparts in Emergency Management whip out their phones and take pics without fail every time they visit. If you need picture, feel free to hit me up and I would be happy to send you some.

Lastly, and this is something I have done in the past and still do, I have asked an NCO a very simple question "What part of the Creed did your actions emulate?" (This part you get to fill in) "was it the part where you will provide expert leadership? Being more professional? etc." I find that one question can spark more motivation, than all the reams of counseling statements will ever do.
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CW5 Regimental Chief Warrant Officer
CW5 (Join to see)
10 y
In line with your last paragraph I like to ask "Which Army Value were you thinking of when you said that?" I get some nasty looks but sometimes people really take a look at how they came across.
A recent example for me: A lot of conversations state that we must issue Respect when discussing a controversial topic. I usually retort with what aspect of Selfless Service came to mind when you asked for that exception to policy/waiver, etc.?
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CW3 Kevin Storm
CW3 Kevin Storm
10 y
Touché Chief! I will keep that one in mind in the future.
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