Posted on Oct 3, 2016
I just visited West Point. Are the best Army officers often from West Point?
67.6K
223
82
6
6
0
Officers
Cadet
USMA
Responses: 42
4
4
0
3
3
0
I always felt like the ROTC officers had an edge over the USMA officers starting out, as they were educated, not trained in college. ;). But it should be noted that some USMA officers turn out pretty well, overcoming their initial disadvantage.
(3)
(0)
LTC Kevin Kugel
Nothing personal, but you have some poor information about the service academies. All service academy graduates take a full load of accredited academic courses leading to the same bachelor's degree an ROTC cadet earns at his/her college. To say that a service academy graduate is trained and not educated is just ignorant.
(1)
(0)
LTC (Join to see)
LTC Kevin Kugel - actually, it was just a joke. I even put the winking smiley face to indicate that so West Point graduates would realize the obvious, but apparently It failed in your case. I mean, come on, man, do you really think any officer doesn't know that West Point teaches classes that lead to a degree just like the ones real colleges give? LMAO.
(4)
(0)
CPT Earl George
for the amount of money the government spends on a West pointer, too often the return is not there. i saw too many 5 year and I'm outaheres.
(0)
(0)
2
2
0
Good officers come from all three accession routes. Much depends on what you bring with you!
(2)
(0)
CW4 Craig Urban
When I was in the 7th inf div. Fort ord 1978-1982 I was in the 519th Maintenance co (ds/GS) back up to the division. Just came from the smo course at fort Lee where I was number one in the class. Anyway we had 6 west pointers and 2 ROTC. Battalion Commander was Dennis Benchoff. West pointer. Distinguished graduate. CG was Phillip Feir. Former commandant of cadets. Got caught up in the cheating scandle that rocked west point. In that battalion was rick Schwartzman, bill guinn, Andy schmar, his wife a west pointer. Steve Flour commanded the aviation company. Jack Welch commanded b co. Any way ROTC are the best and maybe OCS mustangs.
(0)
(0)
MAJ (Join to see)
Sir, there are actually 4 accession routes. Military academy, ROTC, OCS and Direct commission, of which I am a member.
(0)
(0)
2
2
0
I worked on joint service staffs as a USAF officer, civilian contractor, and Army Civilian. Some of the Army Officers I served with were West Point graduates. I don't know that they were better staff officers than their counterparts from other commissioning sources. What I did see was improved opportunity for promotion and assignments for the West Point grads. The one GO I served under who was a West Point grad only advertised it because he hung a lot of "Beat Navy" stuff around the command section every fall. Turns out he had been a West Point football player. He was also a darn good leader.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
This may be a double edged sword. I have gotten asked if i think the Naval Academy produces the best officers. Often, I would say yes, but I also add that it also puts out the worst officers as well.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
I was an SMI at a mid size college so I witnessed both sides of this. I can say West Point has the resources to give their Cadets a professional military advantage over ROTC students. During LDAC at Ft Lewis Wa, USMA brought a platoon of Cadets to go through the 5 week assessment with the students. Overall they were better prepared in military decision making during the field portion. There was also a huge contrast in military bearing. I had some outstanding students but there never seemed enough time to effectively mentor them. To say one is better than the other is pointless, USMA has history and tradition but overall the officers and NCO's mentoring the 2LT's makes the difference.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
My general opinion of most service academy officers is that they went to 4 years of high School where Mommy told them when to get up, what to eat, when to study, and when to go to bed. Then they go to college where somebody tells them when to get up, what to eat, when to study, and when to go to bed. I tend to have greater confidence in a leader who learned his/her decision making skills, starting as a Freshman. Should I head for the coast and start my Spring Break early, or go to the Calculus review for the next exam, and what about that Babe that moved into the apartment two doors down. I must form a strategy to meet her without looking impetuous. It is from those roots that great leaders ascend.
(2)
(0)
Cadet PVT (Join to see)
Wouldn't you think sir that the discipline makes a difference. I'm not sure that I understand your point. The purpose of the regimented lifestyle is to make sure Cadets earn their privileges and learn the importance regarding the outcome. Why would you rather a self learned lifestyle that can lead to nasty habits that could affect their Army career. I've been on both sides going to a civilian college and West Point and I've learned that the regimented lifestyle will help make me an effective leader. I'm learning how to be a follower and how to follow an example of excellence. I never had that in a civilian college much less the goal of excellence like the academy aspires us to have.
(0)
(0)
MAJ Raymond Haynes
That's my point exactly, you speak of a regimented lifestyle earning privileges? "I'm learning how to be a follower." I would hope you were learning how to be a leader. Hopefully I misunderstood what you were trying to say, if you are joining the officer corps from a position of assumed privilege, you have been seriously mislead about what being an officer is all about. We are about the people we command, we are the last to eat, the last to drink, the last to get any sleep, the last to get out of the rain. The people you command are your first priority, end of story. I would also suggest that you study the relationship between a "regimented lifestyle" and being an effective leader. Make no mistake, the military demands discipline, at all levels, however, that in itself does not breed an effective leader. Look back at the German Army in WWII, they were 'frozen' by a regimented senior command structure. Captured German Officers commented on the flexibility of US units being a serious problem, and major component of their success in battle.
Enjoy your college experience Cadet, but please remember when you step into the reality of an actual command, listen to your staff NCO's, understand that you cannot lead from a book, and never let the lowest Private think you are there for the privileges.
Enjoy your college experience Cadet, but please remember when you step into the reality of an actual command, listen to your staff NCO's, understand that you cannot lead from a book, and never let the lowest Private think you are there for the privileges.
(0)
(0)
2
2
0
I don't necessarily think that anyone out of an academy is better than their OTS or ROTC counterparts. There is good and bad with each. Academy officers are surrounded 24 hours a day 365 days a year with other cadets that they lead. That leadership doesn't necessarily transition well when leading enlisted folks. They lack interpersonal skills because they only see each other.
ROTC and OTS commissionees don't have the 24/7 leadership lab that the academy guys get either. I think if a leader is a leader, you won't be able to tell the difference between them at all unl3ess they tell you and those that tell you...well, if they have to tell you they are looking for something. Real leaders don't flaunt their colors like a peacock...they focus on the mission and that is where the rubber meets the road.
ROTC and OTS commissionees don't have the 24/7 leadership lab that the academy guys get either. I think if a leader is a leader, you won't be able to tell the difference between them at all unl3ess they tell you and those that tell you...well, if they have to tell you they are looking for something. Real leaders don't flaunt their colors like a peacock...they focus on the mission and that is where the rubber meets the road.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
In my career I noticed the best officers generally were prior enlisted. I had a few good officers that came thru West Point. Most West Pointers come to their first duty station with a big chip on their shoulder, and a better then you attitude. If they are assigned to a grunt unit these issues are usually cleared up pretty damn quickly.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
Some I served with were great others average. I had this 1 full bird that did not like what I did one time he caught up to me in my orderly room and started chewing my ass. I look around doors were closing he wanted to know who my platoon sergeant and platoon leader were. I stood at attention taking my ass chewing not saying a word he finally told me get my ass out of there. Thought that was the end until 3 weeks later got a call go to regiment shit he caught back up and here it comes. Go down there he calls me in at attention waiting for it tells me relax there are some things he wants me to do for him. Well ok turns out he liked that I would not talk go figure.
(2)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google