Posted on Feb 27, 2018
I was told recruiters will lie to you and you will end up with a different job after basic. Is this true?
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I am a high school senior and just scored a 98 on the ASVAB. I have to talked mostly to the navy, they told me nuclear was the best option. But while I was in the office they were talking to 3 people about it. I am skeptical if they say that to get you to enlist and then give you a different job. I don’t have any military members in my family and need some guidance.
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 36
What is true, is they will tell you what you want you want to hear.
Lie? most no not directly, lie by omission? Well yes and to some degree its a requirement.
very, very few would ever sign up if the recruiter told them EVERY bad, crappy thing they might have to do in the service.. The enormity of it would overshadow the good of it.. even though most afterwards see it as worth the suck. Some dont, we call those "former service members" .... (Pipe down jar heads, I did not say former Mar....... nope wont get me to say it here either)
So assuming your not talking with the ultra small percentage of dishonest recruiters remember if its not written in plain English, its not a guarantee..assume it wont happen.
Its not just what is said, it is what is not said (lie by Omission )
"You can change jobs after you get to your unit" is NOT a lie, but it is not the whole story..
At the end of your enlistment as a 34N sub Q bat guano sanitation disposal expert .. you may have a option to change MOS's but thats a maybe and only then will it be from a needs of the service ..So you MAY be offered a choice from a list of what they service needs, not what you want.
"You get to travel and see cool places" is NOT a lie, but it is not the whole story..
You may get to travel to a cool place like Ireland, and never leave the lockkdown area inside the airport while waiting on the aircrew to get replaced so you can finish the trip to Iraq
You might get to go to England and spend 90 days there.....89 of them on post or in the field, and a 12 hour pass off post on the day before redeploying ......OR you might get stationed in a really cool place and have the time of your life,,I did, 3 years in Germany as a 19-21 year old.
So listen to everything said, trust but verifier and any promise made is just a good idea maybe, if it is not on the contract in plain English....
And like was pointed out on the Nuke rate... an important question back to the recruiter is.,,, What is the attrition rate and WHY (to see if it is a weak spot in your self) What happens if I fail out of the MOS schooling?
An Army For instance .. MOS 92R Rigger ...more than a few never make it to a unit assigned as a rigger.
Go through basic, get though AIT, go on to Airborne school and.....get hurt, be a jump refusal, get kicked out for sneaking to town and getting drunk, caught with a prostitute in the barracks, take a swing at a black hat all things I personally know of happening. Or, your security clearance is not yet complete after AIT, or Airborne school you may be a hold over,,if you are not granted a clearance you may be reclassified (NOTE, I see as of today a security clearance is "not Required" for 92R, I don't know if that is a change or if it is essentially a lie by omission...Secret or above clearance is not required, but there are only 3 MTOE slots world wide where you can be a level one rigger and not have a clearance..or something like that)
Point is, ask the questions....trust but verify and if told you can, you will, opportunity, most times, you should ..come into the conversation you better ask the follow up questions.
Lie? most no not directly, lie by omission? Well yes and to some degree its a requirement.
very, very few would ever sign up if the recruiter told them EVERY bad, crappy thing they might have to do in the service.. The enormity of it would overshadow the good of it.. even though most afterwards see it as worth the suck. Some dont, we call those "former service members" .... (Pipe down jar heads, I did not say former Mar....... nope wont get me to say it here either)
So assuming your not talking with the ultra small percentage of dishonest recruiters remember if its not written in plain English, its not a guarantee..assume it wont happen.
Its not just what is said, it is what is not said (lie by Omission )
"You can change jobs after you get to your unit" is NOT a lie, but it is not the whole story..
At the end of your enlistment as a 34N sub Q bat guano sanitation disposal expert .. you may have a option to change MOS's but thats a maybe and only then will it be from a needs of the service ..So you MAY be offered a choice from a list of what they service needs, not what you want.
"You get to travel and see cool places" is NOT a lie, but it is not the whole story..
You may get to travel to a cool place like Ireland, and never leave the lockkdown area inside the airport while waiting on the aircrew to get replaced so you can finish the trip to Iraq
You might get to go to England and spend 90 days there.....89 of them on post or in the field, and a 12 hour pass off post on the day before redeploying ......OR you might get stationed in a really cool place and have the time of your life,,I did, 3 years in Germany as a 19-21 year old.
So listen to everything said, trust but verifier and any promise made is just a good idea maybe, if it is not on the contract in plain English....
And like was pointed out on the Nuke rate... an important question back to the recruiter is.,,, What is the attrition rate and WHY (to see if it is a weak spot in your self) What happens if I fail out of the MOS schooling?
An Army For instance .. MOS 92R Rigger ...more than a few never make it to a unit assigned as a rigger.
Go through basic, get though AIT, go on to Airborne school and.....get hurt, be a jump refusal, get kicked out for sneaking to town and getting drunk, caught with a prostitute in the barracks, take a swing at a black hat all things I personally know of happening. Or, your security clearance is not yet complete after AIT, or Airborne school you may be a hold over,,if you are not granted a clearance you may be reclassified (NOTE, I see as of today a security clearance is "not Required" for 92R, I don't know if that is a change or if it is essentially a lie by omission...Secret or above clearance is not required, but there are only 3 MTOE slots world wide where you can be a level one rigger and not have a clearance..or something like that)
Point is, ask the questions....trust but verify and if told you can, you will, opportunity, most times, you should ..come into the conversation you better ask the follow up questions.
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There are a couple of varieties of jobs within the Nuke community-- machinists/radworker lab techs, IT types, and electricians. (The smartest of the smart go IT, but I always had a preference for machinists.)
The nuke community is always hurting on maintaining enough people. Mostly because the training is really hard (so not a lot of people make it through), the work after completion of training is soul-suckingly hard (so not a lot of people who do make it through are willing to stick around for too long despite knowing the importance of the work), and the training and qualifications are SUPER marketable in the civilian sector. All of that put together leaves us with a really high percentage of people who do only one tour then go on to make real money in the civilian sector...
Bottom line-- once you get through the screening process to sign as a nuke-- the nukes aren't going to let you go (assuming you make it through the training.) This is a double-edged sword. On one hand, they have your back when it comes to being 'voluntold' to do something else. On the other, voluntary cross-rating is completely out of the question (with the possible exception of cross-rating within the nuclear community, but I've never seen anyone try to do that.)
I am a nuke and find it incredibly rewarding-- and incredibly hard. That said, I'll echo what others have said about doing your research and walking in with your eyes wide open.
There is a FB group called "The Reactor is Critical"** that is almost entirely populated with Navy nukes. If you can navigate the really dank sense of humor most of them have, you should be able to get some good insight there. Hope this helps.
**PSA-- For those who have seen too many movies, 'critical' simply means 'on' in reactor terms. Being critical is a good thing. :-)
The nuke community is always hurting on maintaining enough people. Mostly because the training is really hard (so not a lot of people make it through), the work after completion of training is soul-suckingly hard (so not a lot of people who do make it through are willing to stick around for too long despite knowing the importance of the work), and the training and qualifications are SUPER marketable in the civilian sector. All of that put together leaves us with a really high percentage of people who do only one tour then go on to make real money in the civilian sector...
Bottom line-- once you get through the screening process to sign as a nuke-- the nukes aren't going to let you go (assuming you make it through the training.) This is a double-edged sword. On one hand, they have your back when it comes to being 'voluntold' to do something else. On the other, voluntary cross-rating is completely out of the question (with the possible exception of cross-rating within the nuclear community, but I've never seen anyone try to do that.)
I am a nuke and find it incredibly rewarding-- and incredibly hard. That said, I'll echo what others have said about doing your research and walking in with your eyes wide open.
There is a FB group called "The Reactor is Critical"** that is almost entirely populated with Navy nukes. If you can navigate the really dank sense of humor most of them have, you should be able to get some good insight there. Hope this helps.
**PSA-- For those who have seen too many movies, 'critical' simply means 'on' in reactor terms. Being critical is a good thing. :-)
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They have quoto's to fill, and do what they are pressured to do. They are like politicians, they say things to you, that are a total stretch. When I enlisted, I wanted to go in right away, they said there were two openings, a Radio Repairman, and a Calvary Scout in USAEUR, West Germany. I was hoping to learn a skill for a career, I asked what scouts do that could teach me a skill. She replied, they draw maps. I then asked, so you mean I could become a topographer when I got out, she said sure. Now scouts made map overlays, not maps, so technically that was as stretch, and saying I could work as a topographer was true, its just that my job would not train me to do it and I would have to get training, but she simply said I could work as one, which was kind of true. I said to her West Germany was a long way from home, how long would I have to stay, she replied after 18 months, you can apply for transfer back to the states if you don't like it. When I got there, I told them this, they laughed, and said yeah, you can apply..... When my son went in, the wanted him to go into Artillery, I assume it was a position of need at the time. They told him he would be on a 155mm gun crew. And that he would not have to go to Afghanastan, because the current weapons platforms were not being used there, and neither were the new systems. I went on line and did a google search, and the new 155mm guns were deployed there. Not sure how they figured that one was a true statement. All I can tell you son, is if they don't put it in your contract, don't believe it. If they make you a promise, make sure its in writing.
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Watch what you contract actually states. Your recruiter is there to walk you thru the process. When you go to MEPS for your physical and contract is when the hard sale will start.
Bottom line is there will be a clause that will say “at the needs of the army, navy, air force, etc.” somewhere in your paper work.
I personally never meet anyone who had their orders changed unless the failed a school.
Bottom line is there will be a clause that will say “at the needs of the army, navy, air force, etc.” somewhere in your paper work.
I personally never meet anyone who had their orders changed unless the failed a school.
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What ever you get on your signed contract is what you will be trained for.
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Recruiters want to get you in and so they will upsell the glamorous jobs as these are what most people hear and read about growing up. NAVY Sub, Army Ranger, Marine Force Recon, Air Force Para. Not really a selling point to be talking about being a quartermaster, personnel specialist, cook or mechanic even though these jobs are equally as crucial to keep the warfighter going.
There is a clause somewhere in your contract that you sign that you may be reassigned at the needs of the military. Basically what that means is that while you score 98 on the ASVAB and you qualify for say Sub school, and you want that, there are only so many sub school allocations and the Navy might have other needs in other areas that you can fill. This will all be detailed out at MEPS when you sit down with another recruiter there for the final contract. What you actually sign on the line for though, is what they physically agree to so they cannot change you from being a Sub to say being a Quartermaster as that is a breach of contract and allows you the option to get out with nothing detrimental to you.
There is a clause somewhere in your contract that you sign that you may be reassigned at the needs of the military. Basically what that means is that while you score 98 on the ASVAB and you qualify for say Sub school, and you want that, there are only so many sub school allocations and the Navy might have other needs in other areas that you can fill. This will all be detailed out at MEPS when you sit down with another recruiter there for the final contract. What you actually sign on the line for though, is what they physically agree to so they cannot change you from being a Sub to say being a Quartermaster as that is a breach of contract and allows you the option to get out with nothing detrimental to you.
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