Posted on May 3, 2017
If the distance for the PT test run was 2.13 miles, am I still allowed to dispute it and request a retest?
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Running
APFT
Physical Training
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 239
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People are also missing the point that soldiers who use this track aren't being evaluated equally with their peers. Let's say platoon A runs on a track measuring 2 miles exact and platoon B runs a road course at 2.1 miles. If the stud of each platoon finishes the test at 12 minutes flat than platoon B stud will have ran further than the stud from platoon A. Now when the commander looks at these guys he will view them equal, when really the guy from platoon B is more fit. This can impact promotions and awards and that should never be the case.
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Everyone’s assuming it’s because of a failure. If it came down to (not) maxing the run because of .13 of a mile extra, I’d be pissed too.
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I recall the entire company had to redo a or test once over the 2mr distance accuracy.
.13 miles, if you failed by mere seconds, it's well worth the retake. If you failed by much more, this may be the time needed to work your tail off to shave down your time.
I struggled with running my entire time in. I passed, failed, passed, failed. Always super close on the time when I did manage a pass.
Not for lack of effort, I literally broke myself contributing to push past injury to overcome the time barrier standing between my success and I.
Now that I'm out I have returned to cycling. I don't run unless something is chasing me.
I had some crappy leadership do nothing but berate me and accuse me of not trying. I had other great leadership help me any way they could. I had several phenomenal leaders help me improve my running form. No wonder I couldn't run, they said, I ran like an unbalanced washing machine. The form correction did truly help me and to this day I appreciate the ncos that truly cared.
Best of luck to you PFC Herrera. From someone who struggled with this one aspect of Army life, I truly hope you are able to overcome this.
.13 miles, if you failed by mere seconds, it's well worth the retake. If you failed by much more, this may be the time needed to work your tail off to shave down your time.
I struggled with running my entire time in. I passed, failed, passed, failed. Always super close on the time when I did manage a pass.
Not for lack of effort, I literally broke myself contributing to push past injury to overcome the time barrier standing between my success and I.
Now that I'm out I have returned to cycling. I don't run unless something is chasing me.
I had some crappy leadership do nothing but berate me and accuse me of not trying. I had other great leadership help me any way they could. I had several phenomenal leaders help me improve my running form. No wonder I couldn't run, they said, I ran like an unbalanced washing machine. The form correction did truly help me and to this day I appreciate the ncos that truly cared.
Best of luck to you PFC Herrera. From someone who struggled with this one aspect of Army life, I truly hope you are able to overcome this.
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For those saying that the .13 miles shouldn't matter and are so called NCOs shame on you. Your job is to ensure the standards are meet. The Army standard is a Soldier will score 60 points by completing the 2.0 mile run in equal to the appropriate time for their age and gender. A soldier may be close to failing but a pass is a pass non the less. An APFT run course that is proven to be over two miles is not only setting the Soldiers up for failure but potentially ending soldiers careers. This if true is an example of NCO failure and nothing more those responsible for setting the course should receive reprimand.
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If you did not pass the same course that everyone else ran on, the issue is you. Your inability to keep fit and stay current with the task, conditions and standards. Get your ass up and work out. Better yet your PSG abs squad leader should be monitoring your fitness level and deciding if you need some extra PT.
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SSgt (Join to see)
It's true that we should be ready everyday to run the test and pass, but adding an extra 5% is like saying 5% of the ammo you were shooting with were duds but you should have shot a little straighter to hit marksman. Your test for promotion was missing the last page with five questions but you didn't really need them as you should have scored higher. You pay is 5% short but you should budget your money better and you will be fine.
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CPO (Join to see)
The issue is the leadership failure! This individual Soldier's fitness level is tertiary at best. His unit leadership is screwing over every Soldier that runs an APFT on that 2.13 mile course and I am disappointed you cannot see that.
A 20 y/o male PT stud running a 300 pace on a 2 mile course will have to cut over 50 seconds from his time to maintain that 300 on a 2.13 mile course. A Soldier running a 74 at 2 miles will only score 60 at 2.13 miles. A Soldier who should get a 70 at 2 miles will fail the run at 2.13 miles.
The difference between a 274 APFT score and a 260 APFT score is 24 promotion points for a SPC/CPL trying to become a SGT. How would you feel if you missed your SFC(p) because the command wrongly excluded something you earned from your promotion packet? How would your promotion board view an adverse NCOER in your packet for failing the APFT when in reality you would have scored a 74 on a 2 mile course?
This is a failure of leadership; not Soldier fitness issue!!
A 20 y/o male PT stud running a 300 pace on a 2 mile course will have to cut over 50 seconds from his time to maintain that 300 on a 2.13 mile course. A Soldier running a 74 at 2 miles will only score 60 at 2.13 miles. A Soldier who should get a 70 at 2 miles will fail the run at 2.13 miles.
The difference between a 274 APFT score and a 260 APFT score is 24 promotion points for a SPC/CPL trying to become a SGT. How would you feel if you missed your SFC(p) because the command wrongly excluded something you earned from your promotion packet? How would your promotion board view an adverse NCOER in your packet for failing the APFT when in reality you would have scored a 74 on a 2 mile course?
This is a failure of leadership; not Soldier fitness issue!!
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Fail? I felt bad when I didn't ace it (even after 20 years and several injuries). Sorry, try the dictionary for sympathy. None here.
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The question is how did you measure that .13 extra? Did you use a roller or some god enabled device which is not always accurate to measure distance? If it actually was 2.13 you can contest it but in 24 hours after you contest will you be able to pass 2 miles? Might want to ask yourself that. Your COC will probably give your your 24 hour notice for a pt test on the spot and you will have to take it again. If you failed by more than 10-15 seconds you might wanna reconsider. All you will do is cause your COC to resent you and say you are crying about it and you will take another immediately and if you fail, you will take another as soon as allowed to try to process you out on a chapter.... just think about if it is worth it all for .13
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CPO (Join to see)
If is was actually anything over 2 miles the command should immediately admit their error and throw out the invalid APFT for everyone who ran it. (The PFC stated he used a measuring wheel to confirm it was 2.13 miles)
0.13 miles is about 229 yards, which is over two football fields added at the end of a 2 mile run. I do not know of anyone who can run 686 feet in 10-15 seconds; especially immediately after running 2 miles. A 20 y/o male PT stud running at 300 pace for 2 miles will need to cut over 50 seconds from his time to maintain that 300 APFT score on a 2.13 mile course. Slower runners would need to cut over a minute off their 2 miles run time to score the same on a 2.13 mile course. Any Soldier that would score below 74 on a 2 mile course will fail on a 2.13 mile course. Isn't 60 the minimum passing score for the 2 mile run?
Compare a 274 APFT score with a 260 APFT score and see how many promotion points are lost. 24 promotion points for a SPC/CPL competing for SGT. What is that? Two Achievement Medals (10pts each) and 1 CoA (5pts) worth of promotion points. Would you be okay with your leadership wrongfully eliminating 25 promotion points from all your Soldiers promotion packets? They just decide to improperly omit 3 awards from everyone's packet? Why are you okay with leadership wrongfully taking 24 promotion points away from all the Soldiers in that PFC's unit? Would the PFC running faster restore all the promotion points lost by every Soldier running that extended 2.13 mile course? Would the PFC running faster eliminate all the wrongful adverse NCOERs for failing the APFT during an invalid test, when the Soldier should have passed with a 70 APFT run score?
0.13 miles is about 229 yards, which is over two football fields added at the end of a 2 mile run. I do not know of anyone who can run 686 feet in 10-15 seconds; especially immediately after running 2 miles. A 20 y/o male PT stud running at 300 pace for 2 miles will need to cut over 50 seconds from his time to maintain that 300 APFT score on a 2.13 mile course. Slower runners would need to cut over a minute off their 2 miles run time to score the same on a 2.13 mile course. Any Soldier that would score below 74 on a 2 mile course will fail on a 2.13 mile course. Isn't 60 the minimum passing score for the 2 mile run?
Compare a 274 APFT score with a 260 APFT score and see how many promotion points are lost. 24 promotion points for a SPC/CPL competing for SGT. What is that? Two Achievement Medals (10pts each) and 1 CoA (5pts) worth of promotion points. Would you be okay with your leadership wrongfully eliminating 25 promotion points from all your Soldiers promotion packets? They just decide to improperly omit 3 awards from everyone's packet? Why are you okay with leadership wrongfully taking 24 promotion points away from all the Soldiers in that PFC's unit? Would the PFC running faster restore all the promotion points lost by every Soldier running that extended 2.13 mile course? Would the PFC running faster eliminate all the wrongful adverse NCOERs for failing the APFT during an invalid test, when the Soldier should have passed with a 70 APFT run score?
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Most units have IG check their course for length and grade. Before you tilt the windmill on this call IG and see if it has Been validated. If IG has checked it, then take your lumps.
Most units on an installation all use the same course and ensure it is correct.
Most units on an installation all use the same course and ensure it is correct.
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An extra .13 miles should only account for less than 40 seconds of run time, if you failed by less than that your unit failed you. However you are failing yourself by allowing your run time to be so close to the borderline.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
True, but a standard is still a standard. If a SM is passing their APFT technically the are "Exceeding Army Standards". I do agree that we should aim for maximums not minimums.
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I guess it would kind of depend on the size of the failure. If it was a few seconds maybe. If it's a few minutes probably not
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