Posted on May 3, 2017
If the distance for the PT test run was 2.13 miles, am I still allowed to dispute it and request a retest?
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Running
APFT
Physical Training
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 239
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30 year retired 1SG here. If he wants a retest and he feels ready let him do it the next day. Get the nipple out of your mouth! You should always able to pass when ordered to take it
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CPO (Join to see)
You're missing the bigger point 1SG, What about all the Soldiers that the command is screwing over using an extended course!?! Everyone has to run an extra 0.13 mile, so everyone's score will be lower than it should be.
Since APFT score is used for promotion, EVERY SOLDIER that runs on that extended course is being penalized with fewer promotion points than they righlty earned and they are disadvantaged during the promotion board (lower score, lower chance) and on the selection list (lower score, lower on the list).
This isn't about one Soldier that doesn't run fast enough, it is about leaders failing to meet standards and administering a critical career influencing test improperly. Its about the command screwing over all its Soldiers because leadership isn't doing their job properly.
Since APFT score is used for promotion, EVERY SOLDIER that runs on that extended course is being penalized with fewer promotion points than they righlty earned and they are disadvantaged during the promotion board (lower score, lower chance) and on the selection list (lower score, lower on the list).
This isn't about one Soldier that doesn't run fast enough, it is about leaders failing to meet standards and administering a critical career influencing test improperly. Its about the command screwing over all its Soldiers because leadership isn't doing their job properly.
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CPO (Join to see)
A 20 y/o male Soldier who runs at a pace that would normally earn an APFT score of 74 on the 2 mile run, would only be get a APFT score of 60 when he runs 2.13 miles. The difference between 74 and 60, equates to the command improperly taking 24 promotion points from *all* Soldiers in that situation. That is like giving a Meritorious Service Medal (25 promotion points) to all his competition at the Jr Enlisted Promotion Board because they only ran 2 miles, but he had to run 2.13 miles. The command is screwing all of its Soldiers and good Soldiers are being passed over for promotion because leadership cannot accurately measure out 2 miles. That is hardly a PFC with a nipple in his mouth.
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.13 miles = 228.3 yds or 686.4 ft. Depending on how close you are to passing, this could be a gut wrencher for a number of reasons. 0.13 miles sounds like nothing until you put it in a more understandable perspective like yards and feet...were talking running an extra two football fields plus. Now forget your an athletic jock and maybe you have a 6-pack set of abs...think about the GI that has worked his ass off practicing and struggling to stay in shape let alone get in shape. Many of those guys try to find a ¼ mile track and run laps and time themselves. They are ecstatic when they can finally pass even if it is minimal standard. Evenso, after all that work they have achieved something - only to take a a test to a standard time measure on a nonstandardized course. That 2 football fields plus is a killer...physically, mentally and on morale.
If you require a Soldier to work his rear off on his time to prepare and achieve standard...you sure as hell as an NCO or Officer in control of that run are responsible to to that Soldier that his course is to standard. Yes - in this retired NCO’s opinion this would grounds for course verification and a retest if found in violation.
If you require a Soldier to work his rear off on his time to prepare and achieve standard...you sure as hell as an NCO or Officer in control of that run are responsible to to that Soldier that his course is to standard. Yes - in this retired NCO’s opinion this would grounds for course verification and a retest if found in violation.
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CPO (Join to see)
Add in the fact that EVERY SOLDIER who runs that course will be assigned a slower run time than deserved and will be awarded fewer promotion points than earned, the problems with the leaderships' failure becomes more clear. How many Soldiers, for how many years, has the command been screwing over? It would certainly piss me off if I missing the cut off score for promotion by the promotion points I lost running an extended APFT course!
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I'd love to know if everyone saying it's only a tenth of a mile suck it up, would on the flip side give someone a pass for failing by 5 seconds or one push up. I mean if we're not holding leadership to the standards, can't expect soldiers to follow...
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CPO (Join to see)
Exactly! Leadership must be held to higher standards than subordinates. Leadership did not meet standards and it is not just this single Soldier that is being jeopardized. How many Soldiers have been participating in invalid testing for how long? How many Soldiers have been flagged over the years that this invalid course has been in use? Not only that, put since APFT score is used for promotion, EVERY SOLDIER that runs on that extended course is being penalized with fewer promotion points than they earned and they are disadvantaged at the promotion board (lower score, lower chance) and on the selection list (lower score, lower on the list)
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Doesn't matter, the standard is the standard. If it was over 2 miles then measure and retest. If we ask our subordinates to adhere to the standard then we should as well.
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Now a days the run is missing judged all the time. Cause most units don't use the correct measuring distance tools to correctly measure a running distance. They use cars. Cars have a variance of distance in the computer which a calculates how far u drive. That variance can make the run shorter or longer. Depending on in the car is newer or older, truck or sedan, etc. To properly measure a running Ning distance the distant rollers are the proper way to do it. If u use the wrong equipment you cheat your soldiers. The distance for .13 miles is 686.4 feat. That's an extremely long variance. For a soldier who isn't strong at running and only can do the minimum or a Lil better you just fucked your soldier over. Or that pt gooroo who tries to get 100%, u just screwed your soldier. My last unit had almost 900ft added to the run cause they used a vehicle. When I growing up my dad told every tool had a purpose & every situation had a tool just for it. Use the proper equipment for the job. U don't use a hammer an oil leak. The person who asked if in this thread has the right to challenge it. Yes he does have the right to challenge. Almost 700ft is a lot of extra distance to be added. Will the 2 mile be perfect no. But it should only be a few ft shorter or longer due to area used not 686.4 ft added.
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PVT Mark Brown
I picked up on a couple important points, SGT Ray Barr, in your comments. 1) Measuring the distance with the proper measuring instruments; 2) Not all soldiers hold a MOS that requires the ability to achieve over the top AFPT results; 3) Why can't you fix an oil leak with a hammer, I do it all the time; and finally 4) if a test, any test has a standard, has a correct and an incorrect answer, is objective - not subjective, then a consistant course of testing must be established. If this were a T or F or multiple choice test with on correct and incorrect answers then using the same rationale, one's answers should be considered correct if they are close - I don't think it works that way. You know the old saying, "Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades." That's my 2 cents worth or is that actually 2.13 cents worth. Not sure!
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The standard is the standard. For everyone that is saying "you've got bigger problems if your failing because of .13 miles," the 2 mile is just as much a standard as the pt standards themselves. I'm pretty sure that you 300 hundred soldiers out there are extremly proud of all the work you have put in to get yourself to that point. So adding another minute to your run time would be a pretty good hit wouldn't it? Just as much hurt as someone that would have passed with a minute to spare, actually failing by a minute because of a mistake. Standard is standard. If you adhere to one, you have to adhere to them all .
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It really doesn't matter if you failed or not, yes any APFT perceived as improperly administered can be challenged. Just make sure your challenge is valid. Check,check and re-check. People kill me with that if they made you fail blah, blah, blah. I've got 18 years in and 61 points has been exceeding the standard the entire time. Do the right thing and lead and this soldier wouldn't have an issue of exceeding the standard or running more than 2 miles on an APFT
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If you're gauging the .13 miles from your phone, don't. Get a wheel and walk the track a couple times to verify the distance. Apps and your phone location can be off, all the times I used a phone to monitor my pace and distance on a set course, it was off.
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If and I stress IF the course was measured incorrectly the entire group that took the PFT on that date should be retested. To be honest if you are so out of shape you cant run a little over 2 miles in 16:36 you need to get your butt out and hit the trails. My Grandma can run two miles in that time.... and shes been dead for 27 years.
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SGT Randall Smith
I can't say much. Won't say how old I am but I went through Basic in March 1966. I did a mile last week at the gym, took me almost 15 minutes and I was gasping and sucking air. I figured my trainer lied to me and it was really 5 miles. At least that's my story and I'm sticking with it.
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SSG (Join to see)
1stSgt Eugene Harless, that is disrespectful. You should have kept to just answering the question.
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1stSgt Eugene Harless
SSG (Join to see) - Not disrespect, simply calling it like I see it. While the distance of the PT course could be off, and certainly should be fixed, the secondary issue is that the service member is not meeting the standards. When I was a young Sergeant and had a member in my section or platoon fall out of runs I said much worse things to get their attention. I also personally would go out and run remedial PT with them. When they improved I would tell them they did a good job. When they tried to quit I called them everything but a child of God and would literally pick them up in a fireman's carry and run with them, to show them what happens when they can't pull their own weight.
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SSG (Join to see)
1stSgt Eugene Harless, i completely understand what it is that you are saying.
The point i am trying to get across is sometimes leadership needs to know when to answer a question without telling the Soldier what they should have done to not be in that situation.
And yes we are all leaders.
The point i am trying to get across is sometimes leadership needs to know when to answer a question without telling the Soldier what they should have done to not be in that situation.
And yes we are all leaders.
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When i was a commander, I was meticulous about accuracy of both fitness and weight checks because they affected my troops futures. Come with proof, and respectfully present your case.
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