If the distance for the PT test run was 2.13 miles, am I still allowed to dispute it and request a retest?

SGT (Join to see) Next to you run across those <<cough>> leaders, you might want to ask them how many promotion points they are stealing from their Soldiers? Or why they want Soldiers in other units to get promoted over their own Soldiers?

Use your run time to figure out how much lower your APFT score would be if you had to run an extra 0.10 miles. Or, better yet, time yourself at the 2 mile and 2.1 mile marks for a more accurate estimate. Then convert your 2 mile and 2.1 mile APFT scores to promotion points to see how much their policy would impact you and your promotion packet. One or two points can make the difference in both selection for promotion and placement of the promotion list. I'm sure lots of Soldiers are losing lots of promotion points having to run an extra 176 yards at the end of their 2 mile run.

I think an anonymous call to the IG about the units that are moving the finish line wouldn't be a bad idea.

if you don't like running you will not make it we would run 2.14 in the time we needed just to be on the safe side but if don;t run you lose

It was mentioned multiple times he used a wheel to measure the course

Will GPS yield the same, accurate measurement as a stick & wheel? In my civilian career, before I retired, I used the wheel quite often. At the local survey shop I used, I found even the best wheel loses accuracy over time but can be either re-calibrated or better yet, replaced. Accuracy in the military is achieved with care, not by accident.

you sound like a damn good old school PFC the type we need now

I usually run 12:30-1250. If I didn’t max it because the course was 2.13, I’d be annoyed by it.

How fast can you run 229 yards? That is well over two footballs fields in length added to the end of a two mile run. If an extra 229 yards is not enough distance to complain that the APFT course violates regulation standards, then just how far in excess of regulation does the course have to violate before it is okay to complain about it?

A 20 year old male PT stud who always earns a 300 APFT score would have to shave over 50 seconds from his run time to maintain his 300 on that 2.13 mile course. Slower runners would have to cut even more time from their run just to obtain the same score on the longer course. Soldiers who cannot score at least a 74 or above on the 2 mile run and maintain that pace for an extra 229 yards will fail the 2.13 mile run. The regulation minimum score is 60 for 2 miles, but this extended course requires a 74 pace just to be a assigned the minimum passing score of 60.

In addition to improperly failing Soldiers with an invalid APFT course, the command is also screwing over all the other Soldiers with lower promotion points. Every step beyond 2 miles increases the Soldier's run time, thus reducing their APFT score which, in turn, eliminates promotion points that all those Soldiers should have earned. Lord knows I would be filing an IG complaint if I missed the cut off score for promotion by 4 points and I know the command screwed me out of 24 promotion points! (74 pace for 2 miles becomes a 60 at 2.13 miles. Compare promotion points assigned for a 274 APFT score versus 260 APFT score.)
http://ec.militarytimes.com/static/pdfs/STEP_APFT_Table_SGT_SSG.pdf

Instead of reliving glory days gone by or comparing your stated performance to the PFC's stated performance, how about you focus on the issue and its impact on all the Soldiers. It that APFT course is indeed "a place that many, many, MANY soldiers have tested" than many, many, MANY Soldiers have been screwed over by that command; which should only serve as more of an incentive to get the problem fixed.

The PFC's run time is a tertiary problem at best. Your comments about running 12 minute APFT in boot camp and belittling the PFC for not running faster is about as appropriate as me saying I had been promoted to E3 by the time I graduated boot camp and belittling you because you never got above E3 during your entire enlistment. It is inappropriate and simply does not add to the discussion. It fails to address the leadership failures at issue and does nothing to help find a solution that that entire command would benefit from.

LCpl Arthur Forbes - Funny! I have seen the same. I played football in High School (didn't make it in college) and I was really surprised by the number of guys that smoked tobacco! (That was back in the 1960's)

I agree with 1SG, the only way to improve your run time is to run. What I did to improve my time was using a treadmill. You can set a specific distance in a specific time. I started at 30 seconds faster thab my current time which broke me off at first but then gradually got easier. Once it got easier I would go down another 30 seconds. After doing this for about 6 weeks, I went from a 16:15 to a 14:45. Most importantly is to keep pushing yourself. Once you reach your target goal the hard work doesnt stop. You have to stay on top of it or else youll just go back to where you were st the beginning. Good Luck to you.

The elliptical, when set on random, works well also.

You are all wrong. Another way to improve your run time is to run the correct distance as stated in the regulation. Not having to run an extra 229 yards at the end of a 2 mile run is an excellent way of improving your run time!

Covering the proper amount of ground during the APFT, instead of more than an additional two football fields, will result in a shorter period of time.

I came up doung the same but these FNG's are soft and would not understand.

PFC (Join to see) - I had to make up some training and my full-time S1 NCO took me to our local community college track and we did an APFT for record. Sounds like laziness to me.

MAJ (Join to see) - I looked it up the distant difference between the two is 18 a half yards short so that won't make that much of a difference concerning your running on a curve half the time while the APFT that I've seen on most units is pretty much running straight up one while and back and maybe a couple of minor turns. All I know is if I can do the eight laps at the time I want to Max APFT it will probably be faster at the Army course because I have adrenaline running and because I'm not running on the curve 1/3 the time. It's always work for me

I have an artificial knee. I can't max a run. I still do the run and stay off profile though.

MAJ (Join to see) - that's good you can still do that I'm 54 and I'm lucky my knees are still good considering I work for United Parcel Service and I get it out of the UPS truck 120 times a day or more.

So what do you tell all the other Soldiers that got passed over for promotion because the extra 229 yards they had to run increased their time which improperly cost them promotion points? A 300 PT stud would have to run almost a minute faster to maintain that 300 score. A Soldier who normally scores 74 on a 2 mile course would only get a 60 on the 2.13 mile course. That is 24 promotion points lost by every Soldier in that category because some idiot cannot properly measure 2 miles.

This is not a Soldier fitness issue, it is a leadership failure issue.....

When I was in Germany, 1966-1968 we all took PT in all weather. We did it in boots and uniforms and our runs were not timed. At promotion time they looked at our records and recommendations and how we looked before the promotion board passed you. And Sgt Chaney, I was a slow runner. Especially with my M-14, ammo, field pack and PRC-24 in the heat and humidity of the Delta in 1968-1969. But somehow I made sure I was never the last man out. Seems "charlie" gave us encouragement.

SGT Randall Smith - Luxury! We did it with full packs, uphill, helmet and rifle, in the snow, while our instructors threw rocks at us.

LCDR Robert S. - : That sounds like when I was in Germany. But at Ft. Bliss, Texas we did it in the sand and had to jump over the cactus and dodge the rattle snakes . We did not want to bother one of the DI's little friends.

SGT Randall Smith - sounds like a fun time was had by all.

LCDR Robert S. - You know what hurts? My son is 38 and in great shape but I really don't believe he could take our old basic training. There was no yellow cards for time out if things got too hard. A DI riding his case would be a hard thing to handle and the Pugy Pit would be the final straw. Much less private rooms of 40 people and open bathrooms.