Posted on May 3, 2017
If the distance for the PT test run was 2.13 miles, am I still allowed to dispute it and request a retest?
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Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 239
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CPO (Join to see)
PV2 (Join to see) Do the math private! How far is 0.13 mile? Over two football fields right? Over two football fields extra at the end of a 2 mile run.
We'll assume you always earn 100 on the push up and sit up events. But go time yourself running 8 times around a 1/4 mile track to get your two mile time and then continue for just over a half a lap more. Record your times and compare the difference in your APFT score at 2 miles versus 2.13 miles. Now convert the two APFT scores into promotion points and see how many promotion points you would lose on a 2.13 mile course even if you passed the APFT.
Now imagine being passed over for promotion to SGT by 5 promotion points. Next calculate the difference between E4 and E5. Multiple the difference by 6 months until the next APFT. Add another month until the next promotion board plus one more month waiting to pin on E5 and get the pay. So how much money is that and how would losing out on that money impact your personal budget and morale?
Now multiple that number times every E4 at your command and you will begin to realize just how hard leadership is screwing over *every* Soldier that runs that 2.13 mile course. This is a leadership failure issue, not a Soldier fitness issue!
We'll assume you always earn 100 on the push up and sit up events. But go time yourself running 8 times around a 1/4 mile track to get your two mile time and then continue for just over a half a lap more. Record your times and compare the difference in your APFT score at 2 miles versus 2.13 miles. Now convert the two APFT scores into promotion points and see how many promotion points you would lose on a 2.13 mile course even if you passed the APFT.
Now imagine being passed over for promotion to SGT by 5 promotion points. Next calculate the difference between E4 and E5. Multiple the difference by 6 months until the next APFT. Add another month until the next promotion board plus one more month waiting to pin on E5 and get the pay. So how much money is that and how would losing out on that money impact your personal budget and morale?
Now multiple that number times every E4 at your command and you will begin to realize just how hard leadership is screwing over *every* Soldier that runs that 2.13 mile course. This is a leadership failure issue, not a Soldier fitness issue!
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Stop crying snowflake. Its the army. You go where youre told, you do what youre told. Its for your benefit. We used to run in combat boots. Sometimes we ran with full combat load, with our rucks. Normal runs were 4 miles or more in snow rain heat or whatever mother nature threw at us. I was infantry and loved it. You must be a remf desk jockey
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CPO (Join to see)
SGT Charles Oliver How is wrongfully reducing everyone's promotion points, improperly flagging Soldiers over invalid tests, writing adverse NCOERs without cause, and erroneously discharging Soldiers benefiting the Soldier again???
Standards are standards and leadership needs to be held to a higher standard than a PFC. That extended 2.13 mile course is screwing over every Soldier that runs on it regardless of MOS. It is costing Soldiers promotions. It is costing Soldiers careers. Why you couldn't see that is beyond me.
Standards are standards and leadership needs to be held to a higher standard than a PFC. That extended 2.13 mile course is screwing over every Soldier that runs on it regardless of MOS. It is costing Soldiers promotions. It is costing Soldiers careers. Why you couldn't see that is beyond me.
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You are allowed to get your ass in shape so you don't fail. Why do people always look for the retest. Why not pass it the first time and be done? We have done this and allowed this it's our own fault. And it's not getting any better.
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CPO (Join to see)
CPO Blain Meisterhans Chief, the command is failing the PFC and every Soldier that run the extended 2.13 mile course. The minimum passing score is 60 on a 2 mile course but anyone running slower than a 74 pace will fail on a 2.13 mile course. A 20 y/o male PT stud running a perfect 100 pace for 2 miles will need to cut over 50 seconds off their time to keep that 100 score at 2.13 miles. Slower runners need to cut over a minute from their run times.
The clock will keep ticking as the Soldier runs over two football fields extra (229 yards) at the end of the 2 mile run. That longer run time will equate to a lower APFT score which will result in fewer promotion points for every Soldier that runs that extended 2.13 mile course. The difference between a 274 APFT score and a 260 APFT score is 24 promotion points. 24 promotion points is the equivalent of two Achievement Medals (10pts each) and one Cert of Achievement (5pts) wrongfully stripped from every Soldier's promotion packet. Selection for promotion and order of promotion are often a difference of only a point or two and this command is illegally taking two dozen points from its Soldiers.
This is a leadership failure issue, not a Soldier fitness issue.
The clock will keep ticking as the Soldier runs over two football fields extra (229 yards) at the end of the 2 mile run. That longer run time will equate to a lower APFT score which will result in fewer promotion points for every Soldier that runs that extended 2.13 mile course. The difference between a 274 APFT score and a 260 APFT score is 24 promotion points. 24 promotion points is the equivalent of two Achievement Medals (10pts each) and one Cert of Achievement (5pts) wrongfully stripped from every Soldier's promotion packet. Selection for promotion and order of promotion are often a difference of only a point or two and this command is illegally taking two dozen points from its Soldiers.
This is a leadership failure issue, not a Soldier fitness issue.
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I am on the fence about this one.
Truth, that extra 0.13 mile is an extra 686 feet (229m) and will add several seconds to your recorded time.
But if the SM in question is cutting it that close on the run, then a bit more time running for time rather than for beer might be in order.
Truth, that extra 0.13 mile is an extra 686 feet (229m) and will add several seconds to your recorded time.
But if the SM in question is cutting it that close on the run, then a bit more time running for time rather than for beer might be in order.
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CPO (Join to see)
Several seconds?? Who do you know can run over two football fields extra in "several seconds" at the end of a two mile run? A 20 y/o male PT stud that would score 100 on a 2 mile course will have to cut over 50 seconds off his time to keep that 100 on a 2.13 mile course. Slower runners will have to cut over a minute off their time. Any pace less than a 74 on a 2 mile course will fail on a 2.13 mile course.
How many promotion points are lost on a 260 APFT score versus a 274 APFT score? Every Soldier that runs the extended 2.13 mile course is getting screwed out of promotion points. Some are getting wrongfully flagged, denied schools, adverse NCOERs without cause, or even erroneous separations. But you are on the fence about this??
The individual PFC's fitness level is tertiary at best. This command is screwing everyone that runs that course.
How many promotion points are lost on a 260 APFT score versus a 274 APFT score? Every Soldier that runs the extended 2.13 mile course is getting screwed out of promotion points. Some are getting wrongfully flagged, denied schools, adverse NCOERs without cause, or even erroneous separations. But you are on the fence about this??
The individual PFC's fitness level is tertiary at best. This command is screwing everyone that runs that course.
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SSG James Mielke
First off, Chief, I did not bother to do the math of the added 0.13 miles as it might correspond to running time hence my use of the phrase, "several seconds".
Second, if other soldiers are passing the run, some very likely maxing it, then it definitely comes down to some additional personal effort and self motivation on the part of the soldier.
And, No. The individual PFCs fitness level is, in this case, absolutely primary. APFT Army Physical Fitness Test..it is testing the very attribute you are trying to claim is tertiary.
The primary purpose of the APFT is not promotion points. It is about being physically fit enough to perform the broad range of combat tasks that any soldier may be required to do; carrying his/her full combat load for long distances or running for cover during an ambush as well as anything in between.
If you want excellent soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines then you raise the standards of conduct and performance, not lower them so everybody feels good about themselves.
Second, if other soldiers are passing the run, some very likely maxing it, then it definitely comes down to some additional personal effort and self motivation on the part of the soldier.
And, No. The individual PFCs fitness level is, in this case, absolutely primary. APFT Army Physical Fitness Test..it is testing the very attribute you are trying to claim is tertiary.
The primary purpose of the APFT is not promotion points. It is about being physically fit enough to perform the broad range of combat tasks that any soldier may be required to do; carrying his/her full combat load for long distances or running for cover during an ambush as well as anything in between.
If you want excellent soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines then you raise the standards of conduct and performance, not lower them so everybody feels good about themselves.
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I took an apft at Ft Hunter Ligget and had it invalidated because the course was .2 miles too short. I've been on a permanent no run profile since January 2011 and I knew that I had not just walked 2.5 miles. I called them out on it and it was decided they would use it as a diagnostic instead of record. Meant that I had to retake it a month later at Camp Rilea in May. Nothing quite like walking 2.5 miles in the wind and rain. So on your counseling form it is perfectly OK to check the "disagree" box and explain why you disagree.
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What you provided gives no real information beyond 1) the distance was allegedly in excess of the standard, 2) you failed. Were you the only failure? If so, you're not going to be successful in filing a protest. Were there multiple failures, unusual for the unit and/or the route? If so, it needs command attention, not PFC. If not, then you are up a creek. Yes, there may be cause for concern, but as a former CDR, I can't render a decision on what you gave here. Sorry, Soldier, but this just doesn't wash.
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For those who are complaining saying he shouldn't fail because the standard is the standard then using the same logic those who barely pass the two mile event while running 8 laps on a 400 meter track should fail. 3200 meters isn't 2 miles. Its like 20 feet or so short. Those soldiers should receive a fail. Or maybe we should just soldier up and accept the distance of the event our unit gives us and run like hell. Rather it's .13 too long or 20 ft too short if you are that close to failing or barely passing then it might behoove you to drop the beer and doughnuts and to run on your spare time to allow your run time to improve. Imho quit crying and soldier up.
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Depends. What was the reason why you failed? Due to time or distance? You didn't say. When you ran, did you drop out after 1 mile? Or did it take you forever to run the distance? What happened?
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2 miles is equivelent to 10,560 ft 2.13 miles is equal to 11,246'4.8", the difference is 686'4.8". For a 15 minute 2 mile you would run 11.73 feet per second or 704 feet per minute that extra 686 feet adds 58.48 seconds to the run, nearly a whole minute. If it was the case this is big and it should be corrected, simple math can fix the score. Who knows maybe this soldier just got off of profile and that extra minute could help, that is also an extra 16th of a mile, a foot or two is understandable, but thats big
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