If you Conceal Carry a Gun what is Your Personal ROE?

Also more fun than a barrel of monkeys - civil liability!

If the DA decides it is too much trouble to prosecute you, the victim (if living) and or the family might haul you into civil court. They'll always have a case that might sound reasonable to a jury, you second amendment psycho.

Walt

In the event lives are being taken I'll act. I see a few here saying they wouldn't draw their weapon until time to shoot. I will draw and be ready to kill if necessary but God willing I'll be ready.

Capt Walter Miller - Some states have the brandishing law to include even if the firearm is still in the holster, but your actions or more the others perceptions of your actions can be under this same law.

You mean if they just feel threatened? Geez, that's almost British.

Well put

COL Mikel J. Burroughs Every situation is different. Are we dealing with a "calm & collected" type? Are we dealing with someone who appears "nervous" or "anxious?" What kind of distance? What are they demanding? (wallet, keys, watch) Do they look like they know what they are doing? (how are they holding the weapon) What kind of environment am I in?

Please remember I carry as a matter of course, and was a firearms dealer for years. These are things I have thought through a lot. I was lucky enough never to have to draw my weapon in need. I hope that continues. But hope for the best, plan for the worst.

Have to agree with Sgt Kennedy.. He has covered practically every possible way to work through this.. End result.. Defensive actions..

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS I agreed whole hardly with your first response and I agree with your second response - You have a plan and your executing that plan. Excellent thoughts and advice for all - thanks

SPC(P) Jay Heenan Even that "Sherwin Williams" CCW permit from AZ only covers 36(?) states.

Unfortunately, in NY (ruled by Wall st donkeys) you cannot carry for personal security just hunting, camping, hiking and target shooting. They also do not believe in accidental discharge it's all negligent if it's not the 4 situations above. May Dunford finally get NESARA to be applied since it's an official law on the books...will rid us all of these traitors who've kept our country Incorporated since the Civil War.

While you should absolutely know and follow the laws and regulations where you carry, I would argue that there are situations that I might choose prison time over grave time. Also, State laws only draw a line in the sand, there is still a lot of material left up to the individual, which is where personal ROE comes in.

SFC James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" I did to, but until we are living in a post apocalyptic time, personal ROE doesn’t exist...

Capt Mark Strobl That is a very good call. I have my weapons in the house and that is to protect my family from home intrusions only. If I carried concealed outside of the house I would follow a very strict set of personal ROE, because like many have said in other responses, even if you are fully justified for taking someone's life in self-defense outside of your home, you will still go through a ton of crap and questioning. In most instances I have card holding NRA Carrying Concealed buddies that I've seen walk away and completely back down from situations that could have escalated into a blaze of gunfire because they have sound and disciplined personal ROE. That is just my name for it. Just some shared thoughts!

CPO Frank Coluccio Thanks for responding and I assume that LEO stands for Law Enforcement Officer. Can you share the levels of escalation that you must go through before using lethal force, if you don't mind?

Correct, LEO is Law Enforcement Officer.
The definition of lethal, or deadly, force is (to put it simply): That force that you know, can and will cause serious bodily harm or death. To be used as a last resort, after all lesser means of force have been used.
That being said, if I see someone with a gun threatening another, I'm not going to approach them and talk to them without my gun drawn AND aimed at them. Neither am I going to pull my gun if I see a plain argument between people.
Level and and escalation is dependent on the situation, and rarely, if ever are the same. You don't have to employ all of them if the the force displayed is at a higher level, i.e. if the person has a knife, you go right to the firearm. As a LEO, I can, and will escalate to the step above the threat to me, and others.
As for level...First is your presence and voice, then physical, employment of other non-lethal means; baton, taser, pepper/OC spray, then deadly. Just because you draw your weapon doesn't mean you have to use it.
The MOST important thing to remember about use of force is that the second they deescalate, so must you. Use of force is a fluid situation and you must be aware of what to use, when to use it, how to use it and, again, when to step it down.

CPO Frank Coluccio Thanks for going though all the steps you would take and how you would assess and escalate. I think it's important to think through all types of possible scenarios in advance if you carry concealed and how you would react. I'm not saying that every situation is going to be the same, but you need to go over your own personal ROE in your mind and training to be spot on. Just my opinion. Sounds like you have a great handle on your own.

CPL Neely, Also Very well stated.. and MCPO Collins, nailed it with Hesitation.. Very True..

Cpl Jeff N. I have a deep respect for your response - thanks

Cpl Jeff N. I second the respect for you Cpl Neely, and I ask you don't you think part of NOT being in a place where you might have to use deadly force is avoiding the places where nuckle heads or criminals hangout, ie bad neighborhoods, seedy gas stations, lousy package/7 day stores, wherever your gut or instinct tells you this is probably not a place I should be in?

Capt Lance Gallardo . Avoiding risky or potential dangerous areas is always a good idea whether armed or not. Being armed (carrying) does not guarantee a good outcome should the fit hit the shan.

As a rule, as a conceal carry licensee you will always be in a defensive posture. Meaning you will not draw until a threat is there. That is already a huge disadvantage. As we learned in the Marines, if you find yourself in a fair fight, you made a mistake. You really have to hope you have 3-5 seconds to draw, acquire the target, find cover (if possible) before shooting engaging the target. If they draw on you specifically (you are in their shooting window) you are likely in trouble regardless. You still have a chance (better than someone unarmed) but someone already with a drawn weapon pointed at you will be a tough spot regardless of carrying or not.

The reality is that shootings occur in what we tend to think are more benign situations. The mall, the movie theater, a school/college, at work etc. Depending on where you live and your company you cannot usually carry at a school or at work so you are always at a disadvantage there. That is the reason there are so many shootings there. The shooters are not stupid.

I agree with you SSG Brose. What I meant was that if I draw I am prepared to kill, not that I wouldn't draw until it was time to kill.

I believe you can go from a posed threat to a gun fight in hundredths of a second when you pull your weapon. So be prepared to pull that trigger if you pull your piece. I have been in situations where I felt threatened and that moment passed and I am glad it did too. I didn't really feel like killing anyone. I remember one time during a concealed carry firing exercise we were suppose to shout a warning, pull your weapon and deliver accurate fire on your target. Mine were all head shots which disqualified me and I had to shoot over again. So I place fifteen rounds in the bad guy's chest cavity and it was pretty much center mass. The instructor didn't like that either as it looked like I intentionally placed all of my shots in the center of this bad guy's chest(target). I told him I was hitting exactly where I was aiming and I intended to do the same if I had to on the street. He told me that in most cases your bullets will miss your target because of adrenalin, tunnel vision and a host of other maladies. I told him I will train myself to shoot my attacker where it will stop him in his tracks. I don't intend to wound him I will kill him. No choice in my mind. I certainly don't want to just piss him off!

SSgt Christopher Brose I think that is some sound advice. There are a lot of what if's though! Thanks for responding!

SFC Jim Ruether I agree and I'm not questioning that, but as we were all taought and we trained our soldiers down range in order to not to kill innocent citizens or non-combatants shouldn't all of us that carry conceal have some level of escalation for the non-lethal situations. Believe me if I was pssing someone off and they pulled out a gun I would shut my mouth and try to walk away first, even if I was carrying, because a move to get my gun could cause me to die. Secondly, if someone is coming at you like they intend to hurt you, don't you thing a warning shot rright by their ear would get their attention - it would mine. I'm just trying to make sure as a society that we have all thought about the what if's and thought about our own personal Rules of Engagement. It was punded inot our heads down range, shouldn't be part of our TTP's in our communities. Just a thought and my opinion. I hope I didn't offend by discussing some of the other options.

COL Mikel J. Burroughs -No troubles here. You hope that you never get in a situation where you may need to make that decision. Situational awareness will keep you out of most troubles. No dark alleys, travel in a group, a lot of good ways to stay safe!

COL Mikel J. Burroughs - But remember, sir, that the ROEs do not take away a Soldiers right to use deadly force to defend themselves, or their fellows. That is rule number one, and often gets overlooked, especially by the media. No worries. I'm enjoying the conversation. Multiple points of view are a requirement for true learning.

SFC Jim Ruether Totally agree with your comments - that is good advice for all families and anyone traveling in unknown locations, cities, etc... LTC (Join to see) You hit the nail right on the head there is some great comments and feedback going all around. I really don't disagree with anyone, unless they said kill everyone that looks at them funny. I think it is good to think about these things from a safety, society, and community perspective. There is no such things as "Personal ROE" I made that up about a couple of hours ago to get this party started - so ffar so good. I've leraned a lot and there has been some really good thought process past around - good stuff Thanks to both of you are joining in!

SGT Jerrold Pesz
Tennessee has a "Stand Your Ground" law. There is also the "The Good
Samaritan Protection Act of 1999" that covers coming to the aid of others.

SGT Jerrold Pesz Thanks for that excellent feedback - I respect your ROE it sounds like you have thought is through thoroughly!

Doug Macdonald Thanks for the examples that you provided and your response. I hope I'm never confronted with the first one when it comes to my home.