Posted on Jun 10, 2015
In The Veteran Community, Jealousy Is The New “Blue Falcon”
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I love the Havoc Journal. They are one of the few entities that will call out soldiers and vets. They are soldiers and vets themselves. Sometimes it has to be done.
But I can say that even in Rallypoint I have seen this occur. We have so many internet bad asses they are quick to say how they were so much better. I know I am a LT but just about every time I have been one upped or called out I have been in the military longer than the other person trying to call me out. I am not saying that I not subject to be questioned but the next time a guy tries to say anything when they never deployed or were combat arms about how should an infantry officer perform in combat I just may go nuclear.
Now, I appreciate many vets here. I hold Vietnam Veterans in a category far above my own. In addition I hold members of the Special Operations Community also in high regard. The one time I was in the company of one of the Merrill's Marauders you would have thought I was a pauper in the presence of a King. To me I will never be able to achieve their greatness because I have such great respect for them.
Now in the veteran community we are seeing how everyone is special. Don’t you dare say that a National Guard Truck Driver is anything less than the Rangers at Point De’Hoc. No one is saying that anyone is less but we have some vets that are greater than others. We do it in the military. Some guys get Medals of Honor, Silver Stars, and Service Crosses. I have done some wild stuff but I will be first to say it wasn’t on par with soldiers like SFC Paul Ray Smith. Sorry, but some of us aren't that special. I will tell you that there are many of you that have done more than me and there are some that haven't. That is fine. I am not in competition with any other here. But when a "Vet" judges another vet for a comment it blows my mind. I have seen a soldier with no combat experience that was Combat Service Support tell an Infantryman with multiple deployments that he doesn't know what he is talking about and that he wouldn't be a good leader. The guy calling out him out was a lower enlisted soldier about less years in than fingers on one hand. Or guys that tell a Special Forces soldier that he doesn’t understand what he is talking about when it comes to war in Afghanistan.
If you have to prove that you are better than another Vet or try to one up one then you might be the new "Blue Falcon." The worst are the ones that try to one up another by making something up. The ones that when you tell them you were in Iraq for the invasion they will tell you that the movie "Jar Head" was based on their experience in Desert Storm. But hey, if that is what gets you by then you deserve the Blue Falcon Medal with a “CawCaw” device for badassery.
But I can say that even in Rallypoint I have seen this occur. We have so many internet bad asses they are quick to say how they were so much better. I know I am a LT but just about every time I have been one upped or called out I have been in the military longer than the other person trying to call me out. I am not saying that I not subject to be questioned but the next time a guy tries to say anything when they never deployed or were combat arms about how should an infantry officer perform in combat I just may go nuclear.
Now, I appreciate many vets here. I hold Vietnam Veterans in a category far above my own. In addition I hold members of the Special Operations Community also in high regard. The one time I was in the company of one of the Merrill's Marauders you would have thought I was a pauper in the presence of a King. To me I will never be able to achieve their greatness because I have such great respect for them.
Now in the veteran community we are seeing how everyone is special. Don’t you dare say that a National Guard Truck Driver is anything less than the Rangers at Point De’Hoc. No one is saying that anyone is less but we have some vets that are greater than others. We do it in the military. Some guys get Medals of Honor, Silver Stars, and Service Crosses. I have done some wild stuff but I will be first to say it wasn’t on par with soldiers like SFC Paul Ray Smith. Sorry, but some of us aren't that special. I will tell you that there are many of you that have done more than me and there are some that haven't. That is fine. I am not in competition with any other here. But when a "Vet" judges another vet for a comment it blows my mind. I have seen a soldier with no combat experience that was Combat Service Support tell an Infantryman with multiple deployments that he doesn't know what he is talking about and that he wouldn't be a good leader. The guy calling out him out was a lower enlisted soldier about less years in than fingers on one hand. Or guys that tell a Special Forces soldier that he doesn’t understand what he is talking about when it comes to war in Afghanistan.
If you have to prove that you are better than another Vet or try to one up one then you might be the new "Blue Falcon." The worst are the ones that try to one up another by making something up. The ones that when you tell them you were in Iraq for the invasion they will tell you that the movie "Jar Head" was based on their experience in Desert Storm. But hey, if that is what gets you by then you deserve the Blue Falcon Medal with a “CawCaw” device for badassery.
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Responses: 20
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I think you raise some very valid points Eric. Thanks for posting this article. I think we all at some point have tried to one up or prove we were as good or better than another relevant to our status as SMs and vets. I know there are many NG/Reserve vs. AD discussions where this has relevance. There are also some posts about who should be called a veteran that I have personally participated in and have found my attitude adjusted by. IMHO, A lot has to do with context as well as attitude.
You can't go into a discussion here or anywhere with a closed mind because then everyone thinks you're grinding your agenda axe. You have to be willing to listen to the points of view of others otherwise you'll find your self ostracized, somewhat intentionally, because people don't want to hear "I'm right and you're wrong" for having an opinion.
You have to have a clue about what you're discussing and what it relates to. Yes we've all misfired in a post, gotten facts wrong or not understood exactly how or why the question was asked the way it was. A responsible participant will get clarification and interact with others to get into the context of the discussion and how it relates to them.
RallPoint is a team building exercise, like others we've all been through. No one should think they are better than another person and post content to that affect as it discourages meaningful conversation. Technically it would be considered cyber bullying and I'd venture to say we don't want that here because there is plenty of it elsewhere.
You can't go into a discussion here or anywhere with a closed mind because then everyone thinks you're grinding your agenda axe. You have to be willing to listen to the points of view of others otherwise you'll find your self ostracized, somewhat intentionally, because people don't want to hear "I'm right and you're wrong" for having an opinion.
You have to have a clue about what you're discussing and what it relates to. Yes we've all misfired in a post, gotten facts wrong or not understood exactly how or why the question was asked the way it was. A responsible participant will get clarification and interact with others to get into the context of the discussion and how it relates to them.
RallPoint is a team building exercise, like others we've all been through. No one should think they are better than another person and post content to that affect as it discourages meaningful conversation. Technically it would be considered cyber bullying and I'd venture to say we don't want that here because there is plenty of it elsewhere.
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CPT (Join to see)
I like how you say it is a Team Building exercise. The other day I had a PFC say I was wrong in relation to what I was saying. He was professional about it. I looked it up and I was wrong. I thanked him for it. Sometimes you do that and you unleash hell.
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CPT (Join to see), you are not just "a LT", you are *THAT* LT. You are indeed special.
I salute you...
I salute you...
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SSG Sean Thoman
Future Cav Scout School Bus...just saying there with brotherly love SFC William Swartz Jr and is the Porky Pig BBQ still in business (best place to eat in PC.)
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SFC William Swartz Jr
I haven't seen Porky Pig BBQ, so it may not be...and as a Tanker, lol, I feel the same about Scouts!!!
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Lt, great post. I hope I do not do this, and if I ever did I would hope anybody would correct me, but I have seen it when one veteran will disrespect another and it sounds like total BS when the one tries to say he did something and it just doesn't sound right. I have heard this a few times when a soldier talks a lot about combat, but then another, who I saw deploy, doesn't say a word, it gets a little sketchy.
If you are retired, active, reserve, or other for the military I think we should all retain the same respect as if we were talking to people way above our pay grade. I know I have not been in the military long enough to have much of a weighted opinion on these matters as well as I am still an E3, but I still think that mindset of "I am better than that guy" shouldn't take place with military personnel.
I believe you are 100% right with everything you said.
If you are retired, active, reserve, or other for the military I think we should all retain the same respect as if we were talking to people way above our pay grade. I know I have not been in the military long enough to have much of a weighted opinion on these matters as well as I am still an E3, but I still think that mindset of "I am better than that guy" shouldn't take place with military personnel.
I believe you are 100% right with everything you said.
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Well it goes back to third grade when pissing outside was still a non felonious freedom and we would see who could go farther or longer... providing no tadletale girls were around
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As former SF in Nam for a lot longer than a regular tour, I don't feel we were better or worse than any soldier, just a wrong war at a wrong time. Sure a lot of people forgot we even exsit, but probably none try harder to forget than Viet Nam vets themselves.
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CPT (Join to see)
Regardless of what some may think of our Vets I read a lot of LRRP books and SF books about VN. I even read one about F co, 51st IN. I would later went on to join the Army and end up in F co, 51st IN (LRS). To me it was an honor. Then I found out from a guy that was also there in Nam that the guy who wrote that book was a dick. But to those that paved the way for us I have respect. Especially for those SF, LRP, and Rangers of that era.
Amazon.com: 4/4: A LRP's Narrative (9780804109130): Gary Douglas Ford: Books
Amazon.com: 4/4: A LRP's Narrative (9780804109130): Gary Douglas Ford: Books
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While all veterans to deserve thanks, respect and support by the community, there are some people, veterans and non-veterans alike who feel entitled due to some status. All human beings deserve respect but we don't simply get something free for what others have to work for to get. Success comes from hard work. However, some veterans who are struggling due to PTSD or other issue do deserves benefits (ie medical care, therapy, monetary benefits) to help them become contributing members of society. Even non-veterans who have medical/psychological issues as well should be helped as well. The thing that is wrong is the selfish spoiled gimme gimme attitude. I see it far too often among teenagers I teach. Yes provide the support to help such people get on their feet but the good counselor/social worker/teacher should teach them to fish, not give them fish.
One good way to elevate your life, help other veterans, even if you are disabled yourself, you';ll feel better about yourself, the networking can help lead to jobs. Don't be the one that sits around feeling sorry for yourself. Soldiers help other soldiers, veterans help other veterans. That's one of the values we learn in the military that helps not the the team but yourself as well.
One good way to elevate your life, help other veterans, even if you are disabled yourself, you';ll feel better about yourself, the networking can help lead to jobs. Don't be the one that sits around feeling sorry for yourself. Soldiers help other soldiers, veterans help other veterans. That's one of the values we learn in the military that helps not the the team but yourself as well.
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CPT (Join to see)
I agree. I think we see too much of this. I recall when I went to my police academy in 2004 a National Guard soldier had a sticker on her car saying "I served so you could bitch!" I told her she was an idiot and left it at that. He didn't like me but I wasn't trying gain anyone's approval.
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Chuck Norris, Jackie Chan, and I single handedly ended WW2 all while drinking PBR and polishing our medals for the most bacon consumed in one sitting. ;)
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LCDR (Join to see)
Yeah, I just missed that one because I was attached to an "Op" with Steven Segal ;)
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Eric-One thing I enjoy (and sometimes fear) about RP is the fact that we can discuss issues across not only lines of "rank", but service as well. I have gained a lot of knowledge from this, and always try to keep in mind the experience and background of those commenting. As some others have responded-I for one, agree with your point. That said, and again, respectful of others experiences and background vs. my own, being an infantryman with more than a decade of experience may make someone more qualified to an opinion on the role of infantry than a sailor with twenty years of experience...but it shouldn't be assumed that there are not subjects in which that extra decade of life in the service may add value. Also, and I've had to be mindful of this myself, someone posting under E-3 rank who served in Vietnam has also lived significantly longer than I, and that in and of itself demands respect. I think it all comes down to respect, because at the end of the day, we are none of us "ashamed" of being what we were...but we should always keep in mind what we were not as well.
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CPT (Join to see)
There is some value that some of bring to the table. i will say that I don't know very much about the navy. I will let another answer that. But when it comes to fighting I can show my worth. What really bothers me is when we force our experience other another. I get it here a lot. I am not trying to belittle anyone here but if I say I have more combat experience than a soldier that served during the cold war it is just a reality we should shy away from. Just like I don't know anything about the Navy. I am sure there service on some ships have hardships......(pun intended). That is just the way it is. But I were tell a guy on a ship that I had it harder than he did I would be just blowing smoke. I don't know what he did. But on the same token for a Sailor telling me he served just as much as I did while I was in Iraq when he was on a ship then it is the same issue.
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LCDR (Join to see)
Eric-I hope you would agree with me that among the many hallmarks of a professional, is the avoidance of "self-promotion". Most service members I know are not comfortable expounding on their own experiences. One thing I am certain of is that it is imprudent to discount the experiences of another, or denigrate their value.
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You are lucky you did not have a Major Soza editing your writing and spelling. But to your point, like the Billy Ray Cyrus song goes; All gave some, some gave all. In my view, and especially dealing with a over-rated PAC Clerk VSO derogatory comments and who served at Camp Humphrey Korea while I was on the DMZ, while all service is equally honorable as a team, but some on the team contributed more; and do not always flaunt it or have an "I Love Me Wall" for self importance. Just my viewpoint as a GRUNT who was not the best Soldier, but I loved it while I was able too. Oh, and if you were a Cav Scout....well....
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After reading the Article, wow. Why would Veterans be entitled to money made by other Veterans? Are people really complaining that they don't get some of the Range 15 movie's money?
That is crazy.
And other than people trying to get influence points, I don't really see too much one-up-man-ship here.
That is crazy.
And other than people trying to get influence points, I don't really see too much one-up-man-ship here.
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