Posted on Feb 13, 2015
Interesting fact about evading DUI checkpoints. Is it wrong to know this? Not a pro-DUI thread.
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http://reason.com/blog/2015/02/12/libertarian-lawyer-offers-this-one-trick
This post is not meant to support Drunk Driving. The purpose is to have a discussion about check points. Liberty should be protected and drunk driving will eventually cause the taking of the ultimate liberty, a persons right to life.
This post is not meant to support Drunk Driving. The purpose is to have a discussion about check points. Liberty should be protected and drunk driving will eventually cause the taking of the ultimate liberty, a persons right to life.
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 40
I've been feeling for years now that we're getting a little insane with the DUI laws - and I really think a lot of it has to do with the fact that a LOT of people make a lot of money from it (police, courts, urine testing businesses, jails, rehabs, etc). I don't want someone with a .25 BAC out driving, but I really don't care if someone has a few beers before driving. I've been seeing articles recently where some people want the legal limit to be ZERO. Fact is, someone with even up to a 0.1 BAC is most likely just fine to drive.
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Sgt Adam Jennings
Well Capt Porter, you seem to be the only one with an issue here, well, you and Lt Scott. Like I said, I'm done with this. I made my point that it absolutely is not unconstitutional, so in done with this discussion.
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MAJ (Join to see)
SFC William Laws ha ha ha... I might have made a copy error. Nice catch! The original link is above.
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MAJ (Join to see)
SFC William Laws Let me try again:
BAC = 0, 63%
BAC = .08-.07, 5%
BAC = .08-.14, 9%
BAC = +.15, 22%
BAC = 0, 63%
BAC = .08-.07, 5%
BAC = .08-.14, 9%
BAC = +.15, 22%
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SGT Jim Z.
SFC William Laws Thank you for sharing however, here is the data from 2001 from one of the cited references in the story you shared http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics.html
Most recent drunk driving statistics compiled from various sources
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Easy call for me - know your rights / know your responsibilities / know the limits of police authority. BUT, when police are exceeding their authority and violating your rights, arguing with them about it (i.e. resisting) is likely to end badly for you.
The tactic described in this thread is effective based on the type of detention being imposed and the very strict guidelines police are operating within to stay on the legal side of the SCOTUS ruling legalizing checkpoints. Great info-graphic that describes this at following link:
http://www.online-paralegal-programs.com/legal-rights/
The tactic described in this thread is effective based on the type of detention being imposed and the very strict guidelines police are operating within to stay on the legal side of the SCOTUS ruling legalizing checkpoints. Great info-graphic that describes this at following link:
http://www.online-paralegal-programs.com/legal-rights/
You Have the Right to Stay Out of Jail - Online Paralegal Programs
Share this infographic on your site! Source: Online-Paralegal-Programs.com Knowing Your Rights Amendment IV – The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no … Continue reading
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I see a lot of talk here about ones rights, but what about the rights of the victim when that drunk kills or cripples them. How about your right to drive down a road free of impaired drivers.
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LTC (Join to see)
CPL Rick Stasny I agree with the rights of the victim, that is what makes this topic difficult.
CW3 (Join to see), MAJ Dallas D. , SSG (Join to see), and everyone else, I am gald to see that we are all sensitive and professional at the same time. If only the rest of society could be the same way. Everyone in this discussion reminds me what I miss about being a full timer. Regardless of rank the military is above average in awareness.
CW3 (Join to see), MAJ Dallas D. , SSG (Join to see), and everyone else, I am gald to see that we are all sensitive and professional at the same time. If only the rest of society could be the same way. Everyone in this discussion reminds me what I miss about being a full timer. Regardless of rank the military is above average in awareness.
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CW3 (Join to see)
CPL Rick Stasny Nice try, but the old "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about" is nothing more than the same old same old. It isn't good policing, and the Supreme Court has succumbed to politics.
There's someone ON THIS BOARD who stated outright that even if he GOT his weapon when he went to buy it, waiting 15 minutes for a background check was an infringement on his 2nd amendment rights. Seems like we only want to pick and choose what rights are important.
Having said that, I can get your point of view. You probably didn't grow up being hassled by cops merely because your presence made someone nervous.
There's someone ON THIS BOARD who stated outright that even if he GOT his weapon when he went to buy it, waiting 15 minutes for a background check was an infringement on his 2nd amendment rights. Seems like we only want to pick and choose what rights are important.
Having said that, I can get your point of view. You probably didn't grow up being hassled by cops merely because your presence made someone nervous.
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CPL Rick Stasny
I appreciate your comments sir. I can only speak for myself, but I can say without reservation that anytime I was involved in a DUI checkpoint, I treated each person with the upmost respect. Granted, I live in an area that is surrounded by small communities, and some of the ones that came through I have known for a long time. If anything I have ever played a part in saved one life or made a positive impact on an at risk individual, then I satisfied with the the time I spent in uniform.
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After reading all these post, I would like to give you my 2 cents worth. This is something that I know very well. After being discharged from the Marine Corps back in 1970, I was appointed to the New Hampshire State Police in August of 1971. I was with the State Police until my retirement in 1991. During my tenure with the State, I, like every other new Trooper, started at the bottom and patrolled the roads and highways in NH. I can tell you that I have stopped and arrested thousands of drivers for Driving While under the Influence (DWI) of Alcohol or Drugs and in every instance, I did have Probable Cause to make that stop and arrest. They didn't have cell phones then and there were none of the distractions that made a driver swerve or loose control of their vehicle. Most of these stops were either drugs or alcohol related. I can not tell you how many accidents, including fatal accidents, that I investigated because alcohol or drugs were involved. One of these fatal accidents that I investigated, an entire family, mother, father, grand-mother and their two children, died because of a drunk driver. To those of you that posted that they lost a love one or friend because of an impaired driver, please accept my deepest condolences. The bottom line here is that if you have been drinking, please consider having a designated driver. I know of several incidences where an impaired driver called AAA to have their vehicle towed home instead of driving. You don't have to drive while impaired. You do have choices and the best choice, is just don't drive if you are impaired. The fact is that once you have had that first drink or drug, your judgment does start to get impaired. The more you drink, the worse your judgment gets. It is all common sense.
Like many of you have said, if you drink, just don't drive. As for these so called "Check Points," in NH the Police have to Post where the "Check Points" are going to be. They usually do this by using the media, newspapers and radio announcements. We use to call these "Check Point" Safety Checks. We would stop every vehicle that came through and check to make sure that the driver had his License and Registration and also check the vehicle to make sure that it was properly Inspected and that it was safe, tires and all of the lights. Did we find driver's that were impaired, yes we did and they were arrested for DWI. We also found drivers with suspended licenses, unregistered vehicles, under aged drivers in possession of alcohol, fugitives from justice, wanted people and a host of other violations. And one other tip, if your duty station is on leased property from the State, the State Police do have the authority to patrol on that base. We had Pease AFB in Portsmouth and that base was on State property. Back in the 70's and 80's, I did, with the authority of the Air Police, patrol their roads and I have made several DWI arrest while on Base. Did we infringe on anyone's Constitutional Rights? Well I guess if you were one of the unfortunate ones to be arrested, then you would more than like say "yes" we did. But in all reality, we did not. Our job was to protect and serve every citizen who was driving in our State. One last thing, your Driver's License does not belong to you. It is State property and having a License to Drive is a privilege and just like every other privilege that everyone has, don't abuse it! If you have nothing to hide and you are doing nothing wrong, then what is the big deal of going through a "Check Point?"
Like many of you have said, if you drink, just don't drive. As for these so called "Check Points," in NH the Police have to Post where the "Check Points" are going to be. They usually do this by using the media, newspapers and radio announcements. We use to call these "Check Point" Safety Checks. We would stop every vehicle that came through and check to make sure that the driver had his License and Registration and also check the vehicle to make sure that it was properly Inspected and that it was safe, tires and all of the lights. Did we find driver's that were impaired, yes we did and they were arrested for DWI. We also found drivers with suspended licenses, unregistered vehicles, under aged drivers in possession of alcohol, fugitives from justice, wanted people and a host of other violations. And one other tip, if your duty station is on leased property from the State, the State Police do have the authority to patrol on that base. We had Pease AFB in Portsmouth and that base was on State property. Back in the 70's and 80's, I did, with the authority of the Air Police, patrol their roads and I have made several DWI arrest while on Base. Did we infringe on anyone's Constitutional Rights? Well I guess if you were one of the unfortunate ones to be arrested, then you would more than like say "yes" we did. But in all reality, we did not. Our job was to protect and serve every citizen who was driving in our State. One last thing, your Driver's License does not belong to you. It is State property and having a License to Drive is a privilege and just like every other privilege that everyone has, don't abuse it! If you have nothing to hide and you are doing nothing wrong, then what is the big deal of going through a "Check Point?"
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LTC (Join to see)
Agreed DUI is wrong as the liberty to consume should never infringe on the life and liberty of others.
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LTC (Join to see)
Also anything that causes you to loss focus on the road is considered a crime, including the phone.
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I have been in Law Enforcement for my entire life. My dad was an MP and now is a CPT in Ft. Wayne. I am in Law Enforcement and love case law. I could start listing several cases that would argue each side of the arguement. The simple fact in all this is that drving under the the influence of alcohol or drugs is illegal. It doesnt matter how you feel about the subject whether you agree or not. The Supreme Court has not ruled DUI checkpoints unconstitutional. I have read several comments on this and agree with some and strongly disagree with alot. The simple scientific fact is that once you have one drink of alcohol your ability to react has been decreased. Therefore you are a simpley danger to yourself and worse others. Also, one more simple fact MOST DUI checkpoints are initiated in high concentrated areas of past DUI offenses. Making things safer for the public isnt a bad thing.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
"The Supreme Court has not ruled DUI checkpoints unconstitutional."
In 1990, they actually ruled they were Constitutional under the 4th. This isn't a case of "Not reviewed, so the Law stands until it is" but one of "It has been reviewed"
In 1990, they actually ruled they were Constitutional under the 4th. This isn't a case of "Not reviewed, so the Law stands until it is" but one of "It has been reviewed"
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SSG (ret) William Martin
I normally go along with a DUI check point. I do not drink and my info is always up to day so its a waste of my time. A few times I have told the officers to get to the point by me showing my documentation I can drive and ignoring question where have I been and where I am going. Obviously they will looking for signs that I have been drinking but like I said earlier, I do not drink.
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SGT (Join to see)
SSG William Martin the Law Enforcement Officers do not know you don't drink. They don't have any cue. When I said I wanted to be in Law Enforcement I was signing up to help the people not to also get them in trouble. If that DUI check point irritates you oh well. If they stop one drunk driver that night it is successful. That means he and everyone else can drive home safely and not have to worry about getting hurt.
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Apparently I have offended a few on here with comments that I have posted. If that is the case then I do apologize.
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LTC (Join to see)
This is a free and open discussion. While taking life is wrong, we are right to question our tactics for protecting it. This post is not intended to argue drunke drive is right and the point on here is reflect on a practice. I saw many innocent deaths in my life and there is a solution to reduce death rates; forced medication and exercise programs but we won't do that for a reason. So do not be troubled for you have not ever supported the practice of drunk driving, you have only question a law enforcement practice. Freedom means the freedom to disagree.
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I'm so against anyone being DUI that I rank it up to a crime that should end with those who do it are fed to lions in a zoo same with other crimes.
Plus driving isn't a right, its a privilege. Shoot then I vote the government can make cars that you have to "blow" into or they wont turn on which will cost the consumer more money. If you drive and it detects your drunk it shuts off and locks you in until you are sober.... Either way, I hate those that DUI.
Plus driving isn't a right, its a privilege. Shoot then I vote the government can make cars that you have to "blow" into or they wont turn on which will cost the consumer more money. If you drive and it detects your drunk it shuts off and locks you in until you are sober.... Either way, I hate those that DUI.
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MAJ Jim Steven
Heard that MADD wants this....if it were to happen, either bars would go out of business, or public trans would be a booming industry...
@SFC. Marc Rumler
@SFC. Marc Rumler
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SFC (Join to see)
MADD to me always does just enough to turn people away from DUI awareness. I think bars would adapt with more perks of being a DD. However I jut went to best buy and the sell breathalyzers. Army should issue those out lol.
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC Rumler I love your response. Driving is a privilege. I am stationed here in Germany and they can just make you blow for any reason I love that. I wish we would impliment that in the united States.
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My question would be, what is to stop the LEO from confiscating your registration and drivers license to prevent you from driving any further than the checkpoint? LTC (Join to see) I mean if it is in a bag outside the vehicle then it is easy to remove.
As PO3 (Join to see) stated this type of behavior will just frustrate officers and make them pursue the issue even further. I believe eventually they will get their way.
Not to mention LTC (Join to see) Louisiana is a very unusual state to live in for the laws. When I was stationed at Fort Polk I had a minor encounter with the LEO's there where they definitely used some unorthodox tactics to try and frighten me. It did not work as my Mother worked in Warrants in Florida.
As PO3 (Join to see) stated this type of behavior will just frustrate officers and make them pursue the issue even further. I believe eventually they will get their way.
Not to mention LTC (Join to see) Louisiana is a very unusual state to live in for the laws. When I was stationed at Fort Polk I had a minor encounter with the LEO's there where they definitely used some unorthodox tactics to try and frighten me. It did not work as my Mother worked in Warrants in Florida.
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SGT Jim Z.
SSG (Join to see) excellent point about taking it and that would be up to a court to rule on it. My personal opinion is your voluntarily surrendered it when you placed outside of your car. Once you drive off the police now have you dead to right for driving without a license and they have the probably cause to test you for DUI/DWI.
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CW3 (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) could you give us some details, please? I'm very curious as I sometimes have to go to Louisiana for work.....
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It's a hassle and a pain with either approach. I just remind myself that most cops aren't the bad guys, and try cooperate since I know I'm not drunk.
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SSG (Join to see)
Sir: I know and use the quote often, but the police are not your enemy if they are doing their job while trying to stay within the confines of the law in good faith. What you're implying is that we should distrust all cops because a few are bad. That's equivalent to saying all soldiers are baby killers and participate in massacres because a few went off the reservation. Police enforce the law as is given to them. Courts have unfortunately ceded too much to the legislature. If you want to fix perceived injustice do it at the ballot box when you vote for legislators, and realize "tough on crime" means restrictions on civil liberties in nearly every instance.
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MAJ Dallas D.
SSG (Join to see) I generally agree with you, my point is more on the legislative side. I believe we have allowed our elected officials and our court system to erode our Bill of Rights and if we do not start fighting to repair them we will lose all of our rights.
In reality if I approach a DUI checkpoint would I cooperate, most likely - why - it's not worth the hassle. The Officer on site is most likely doing his job, why make it harder on them.
In reality if I approach a DUI checkpoint would I cooperate, most likely - why - it's not worth the hassle. The Officer on site is most likely doing his job, why make it harder on them.
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SSG (Join to see)
I agree, but arguing with the police isn't the way to do it. The issue is essentially since the New Deal the Supreme Court has been impotent in enforcing the constitutional requirements for legislation due to the extreme deference it gives, and both the judicial and legislative branches have yielded an unGodly amount of authority to the Executive branch. If you want to read a court decision that will make you sick read Chevron U.S.A., Inc. v. Natural Resources Defense Council, Inc., 467 U.S. 837 (1984)
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I have gone through checkpoints but not on a night I have been drinking. They police have a duty to protect and serve and therefore have a right if they smell alcohol to investigate its probably cause. I have been stopped for DUI and at least in most states I live in the police need a mitigating traffic infraction to arrest you for DUI/DWI. As Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS stated SCOTUS upheld checkpoints. Also if you follow these advice of this attorney you are drawing more attention to yourself.
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SPC Charles Griffith
SO in affect what you are saying is if you assert your Rights you are asking to be scrutinized???? Silliness !!!!!
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SGT Jim Z.
When I went through the checkpoint it was a legal checkpoint and all they asked for was my registration and license. Being the law abiding citizen I provide the officer what he asked for and I was on my way less than five minutes. I know several law enforcement agencies that actually say hey we are doing this on this day of course they will not say exact time or location but they warn you. Also being respectful and doing as your told helps you because when I was arrested I was charged with DUI but my conviction was reckless driving and btw my BAC was point .81.
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Sgt Adam Jennings
Thank you, I've been saying the same thing yet I'm pounced on for it, then I respond accordingly and get down voted. But basically you and I are on the same page. People up in arms over nothing here.
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LTC (Join to see)
Right, LEO can follow you after the check point once you draw attention to your self and smelling alcohol is probable cause.
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